Durst M800 help

Discussion in 'Enlarging' started by thaung, Apr 18, 2011.

  1. thaung

    thaung Member

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    I really hope you guys have can help me to understand some things regarding the Durst M800. I recently bought one with a CLS 70 color head, Unicon 85 condenser and a set of three lenses ranging from 75mm to 105mm. I also own a couple of 50mm lenses that I use on other enlargers and intend to use on this as well of course. I have used enlargers made purely for 35mm before so I have very limited knowledge on enlargers for multiple formats.

    My question is first, with this head and condenser, is it possible to enlarge 35mm negatives? I think it looks like the negative is not lit evenly, the corners being noticably darker and have a sort of brown/red tint in one corner. Moving the Setibox around can help but it seems impossible to get the whole negative lit evenly.

    Second question obvioulsy related to the first one, in the CLS 70, where the light is directed downwards on the 45 degree plate, it´s just a styrofoam (right word?) surface. Is that correct? I thought is was suppose to be some sort of very fine diffusion plate.

    To clear some things up, the lens baseplate is 39mm as usual but it can be placed facing either way, making the lens come further or closer to the bellows. When using 50mm lenses it´s only possible to get sharp focus having the lens in the "close" position.

    And also, when using 80mm or 105mm lenses ("further away" position on baseplate) it seems to be easier to get even illumination...

    The negativeholder is called Durst Setoneg and as moving masking plates to get the correct masking for the film currently in use if that info helps....

    As you problably have noticed I am quite confused with this enlarger and would greatly appreciate any advice you have, small or big. Do I need a different condenser, baseplate, head or what am I doing wrong?

    Regards
    Rasmus
     
  2. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    It would be better if you posted pictures of your unit. Usually color mixing boxes are lined with styrofoam like this one. Which Setiobox do you have?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    What are you doing with the Condenser? That condenser is for an 80mm lens, but unless that enlarger is some weirdo thing, you would use either the condensers or the mixing box (Setibox).
     
  4. thaung

    thaung Member

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    These are the things I have, the CLS 70 and the Unibox 80. I really don´t know how to use these things and how they work together. Or for that mather if they do at all as you pointed out.

    I managed to figure out that the weird color-cast that present in one or perhaps two corners must come from the colorhead and it´s filters. Because when I took off the filter-mixer-thing from the CLS70 the color-cast dissapeared,

    So I would need a "Setibox for the type of negative I use, correct?

    What does the Uniboxes do in that case?

    Thanks so far for the help.
     

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  5. ndrs

    ndrs Subscriber

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    You can't use your CLS head with a condenser. You need to get a Setobox. You can use a bigger format Setobox for smaller format negative but you'll lose some brightness. Setobox 66 would work fine for 35 mm. As an alternative you could also get what's missing from condenser setup -- in your case lamp socket, 45° mirror and lamp housing cover, but getting a Setobox is probably much easier.
     
  6. thaung

    thaung Member

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    Ok, thank you very much for clearing that up. Now I know a bit more about what I have bought.

    There is a lamp-socket in there so I probably would just need the housing over it and of course the mirror. But I´ll start looking for that Setobox 66 first of all to get started. But, would it be possible to use the current setup (CLS 70 and Unibox 85) to enlarge 6*6 or 6*4.5 negatives? What differentiate a Unibox from a Setibox?

    I should say that I got it dirt cheap (around 50USD) including three good lenses so I didn´t stop to ask to many questions regarding parts. I am in no rush getting the parts so I´ll just have to be patient and look regularly on Ebay and other places.

    Thanks so far everyone who has helped out, it´s been invaluable.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2011
  7. ndrs

    ndrs Subscriber

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    Your Unicon 85 is a condensor, a lens system used to direct the light. Setobox is a mixing box, basically just a empty box with some grounded glass and silvery walls to diffuse the light. I don't think you can use your Unicon with your CLS 70 regardless of the negative format. You have to have the right combination.

    There were three Unicons available, 50, 85 and 105, respectively for 35 mm, 6x6(7) and 6x9. Setoboxes were made for 6x6 and 6x9, I don't know if there was one for 35 mm. If you only can get one, and you do not plan to do 6x9, get Setobox 66. It will be fine from 35 mm to 6x6(7). I've seen them on eBay from time to time.

    PM me if you can't find a Setobox or decide to go for a condenser system, I have a Durst mirror here I can live without. Lamp cover is something you could easily make yourself.
     
  8. thaung

    thaung Member

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    Ok, now I am starting to really get what this machine is about and how to combine different parts. I didn´t know that the M800 could be "rebuilt" in so many different ways, maybe this will turn out to be one of the best long term investments in my darkroom.

    Since I purely shoot B/W I am in no direct need of the CLS70 and perhaps should use my M800 as a condenser system to start with. I´ll have to give that some thought but I´m a bit eager to get the enlarger up and running to do some real testing. Of course, getting a Setobox 66 would be the ideal thing since that would mean I could keep my CLS70 with its inbuilt filtersystem and use it freely with negs ranging from 35mm to 6*7. But getting the "regular" lightsource going together with a mirror would make it work fine for now.

    The M800 by the way, when I went to buy it I thought (since owning an ancient Meopta 6*6 enlarger) it wouldn´t be very much bigger than the Durst B30 I use at the moment. Boy was I wrong, I was in shock when I first saw it, this is a beast and built like nothing I´ve ever encountered before. Truly something extra.
     
  9. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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  10. thaung

    thaung Member

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    Yes, and that would be me bidding on it as well. :smile: I saw it earlier today when I notoriously was scouting the Bay for accessories. But thank you for posting the link.

    I also have gotten help from another member on Apug (ndrs, thank you!) for some parts I was missing to get my enlarger up and running with the Unibox 85. I didn´t have the standard mirror so to sum up my M800 purchase it wasn´t in "usable" condition but with your help it seems that I soon will have it up and running.

    I can´t enough thank both of you that has helped me understand the M800, yesterday when I posted I didn´t have a clue. But now I have a quite good idea of the machine and what items I have, and most importantly, what I don´t have and might need.
     
  11. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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  12. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    CLS 70 Head manual: http://ebgy.free.fr/photo/docs/durst_CLS70.pdf

    So, yes you have a nice machine, its worthwhile to get it up and running right. That head should be great for multigrade printing.

    Also, just to explain the way the head works; the filters come in from the side of the light beam and the mixing box is needed to spread the light out evenly. As you found out, without the mixing box (Sesibox), the filtration only affects one side of the image.
     
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  13. thaung

    thaung Member

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    Thank you for the manuals, with google translate I´ll be able to make use of it without to much effort.

    And that makes much sense, regarding the mixingboxes and the filters, I really thought that my CLS70 was faulty when I looked at the three filters, sitting all "wrong". I´m getting more relieved now when I know the machine more and why it wasn´t working at first.

    One thing though, my M800 is missing the holder for the safety red-filter under the lens. I have seen many enlargers that doesn´t have these and people saying they never use it even though they have it. Does this mean they focus directly on the baseplate or masking plate, does this work well? I would actually like to work that way because its been more than once that I have started my enlarger thinking the red-filter is under the lens when in fact it was not, ruining paper doing so. But if you focus say on the baseplate and then put a paper there, will the thickness of the paper influence on the focus accuracy or is it to small to be off importance?
     
  14. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    The red filter is for the instance where you need to adjust the position of the unexposed paper on the baseboard with the enlarger light on. For example if you were using weights to hold the edges of the paper down. Usually, if you use an easel, it will always hold the paper in the same location, so no need for the red filter.
     
  15. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    When considering focus, the thickness of the paper is too small to be of importance. If you wish to be particularly finicky about it, you can always focus on the back of a print which is intended for discard.
     
  16. thaung

    thaung Member

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    ic-racer: Yes that is how I use the red filter on my Durst B30. But I have seen several enlargers, especially bigger, pro-enlargers that does not have it. I´ve done some searches on the forum and found that it seems to be several people that don´t use the red filter. Some seem to claim that here is a risk that the light path is different when it is passed though a red filter and therefore when focusing using the filter the focus can be a bit off when you remove it. I don´t claim to know anything on the matter since I haven´t done any serious testing.

    MattKing: Good to know, and focusing on a piece of scrap paper would also be a good idea if one is very picky. But focusing on the easel with white light, turn off the enlarger, put the paper there and then exposing seems like a good way to work, at least I think so. I dislike focusing in the red light, to dark.

    I´ll give it a try later this week. This being the first year I really have started doing darkroom work a bit more seriously (still amateur though). I have developed film for several years and scanned them on quite good scanners and printed on nice printers but when I bought an old Durst B30 and made my first prints in the darkroom I was sold. That was one of the bigger turningpoints in my photographic "career". This is my way to work.
     
  17. thaung

    thaung Member

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    Just a little update to the thread: With the help from fellow member ndrs I have got the M800 up and running with a condenser setup. I use the Unicon 85 together with an EL-Nikkor 50mm F2.8 and get great results from it. I totally appreciate it´s sturdy build and great controls. Just the other day I also got my colorhead setup working, a CLS 70 and a Sesibox 35 and it´s running as a diffusion enlarger. But since I also recently bought a Focomat V35 I don´t use the diffusion setup on the M800. It runs as a pure condenser enlarger. Later down the road I intend to start using bigger formats as well and that is the main reason for buying the M800 in the first place. Bigger Sesiboxes, Setiboxes suited for bigger formats and I will have everything I "need". The M800 is amazing in that aspect, a full "system-enlarger" that can me modified to do pretty much everything.
     
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  18. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Good to read it is up and running!
     
  19. salvatore

    salvatore Member

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    :laugh: