E-6 Film like Kodachrome?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by AutumnJazz, Sep 5, 2008.

  1. AutumnJazz

    AutumnJazz Member

    Messages:
    730
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Location:
    Fairfield, C
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I use Velvia, and I like it...but Velvia is most definitely not accurate...I only need to look at a white persons skin tone in Velvia to notice that.

    So...Are there any E-6 emulsions like Kodachrome, at all? I don't know what to ask for, because Kodachrome is so unique. Basically, a color slide film for street photography? I don't know.

    Why do I ask this? Again, I'm not quite sure. I guess I just want to have film that I can always get processed, vs. the people who have 120 or sheet-film Kodachrome in their freezers...I also realize that Kodachrome is incredibly costly for Kodak to make, and I just don't see it lasting for my lifetime.

    Thanks. :sad:
     
  2. accozzaglia

    accozzaglia Member

    Messages:
    559
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Location:
    Sweet home T
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Everybody will give you their best take on what might work best for street photography. I've had pretty good examples using Provia 100F (RDPIII), but even something like Sensia has worked for spontaneous shots I made about a decade ago when I was just getting started. Maybe try a roll of each (and others) and compare?

    That said, Kodachrome remains so much fun. :smile:
     
  3. fschifano

    fschifano Member

    Messages:
    3,216
    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Valley Strea
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    What can I say? I don't have an answer for you based on personal experience, but from the look of it, Fuji's Astia should be a good choice. At least Fuji claims, "smooth and natural skin tone reproduction from the highlights to the shadows".

    If things Kodak float your boat, there's E200 where Kodak claims, "natural-looking skin tones". E100G, or E100GX if you like things a little warmer, look like they might work for you too. Stay away from E100VS, with it's extra saturated colors, if you don't like Velvia for skin tones.

    But what the heck. If you like the look of Kodachrome, then use it while you can. Worry about a replacement when it's gone. A little here, a little there; who knows? It might just keep the production line going a little longer.
     
  4. AutumnJazz

    AutumnJazz Member

    Messages:
    730
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Location:
    Fairfield, C
    Shooter:
    35mm
    There's no 120 Kodachrome, either, and I want to move to MF. :sad:
     
  5. nickrapak

    nickrapak Member

    Messages:
    750
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Location:
    Horsham, PA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have heard, but not tried, that EPP 100 is the most similar "normal" film to Kodachrome, it being a less saturated older emulsion, like Kodachrome. I have also heard that, if you can get the exposure right, EDUPE duplicating film is the closest you can get. Be aware that I haven't tried either, as KR64 suits me fine.
     
  6. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

    Messages:
    1,749
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    Tufts Univer
    Shooter:
    35mm
    First velvia is the least accurate film ever produced. It's supposed to be that way. When fuji "fixed" it with velvia 100f everyone hated it. It's not a portrait film. Try provia.

    Kodachrome is unique in it's structure and color palette and as such there is no emulator for it. That's the truth. You'll just have to find a different film.
     
  7. Columbia_G

    Columbia_G Member

    Messages:
    17
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    If you are concerned with skin tones - have you considered Kodak's Portra?

    Although if you're unsatisfied with Velvia and seeking a K-chrome alternative - it seems you want to shoot slides for people shots.

    Why?
     
  8. kodachrome64

    kodachrome64 Member

    Messages:
    303
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I've been thinking about this too. For 35mm, I'm going to continue shooting Kodachrome as long as I can. I just got three rolls back today after shooting nothing but B&W for several months and I fell in love with KR64 once again.

    I would like to find something that I can use when it's gone. And I want a good slide film for medium format, just like the OP. I didn't care for Provia 100F much, it was too cool for my taste; maybe accurate, but nothing like Kodachrome. Perhaps Astia is different. Maybe the non-saturated Ektachromes will be good. I have only tried E100VS and while it was sharp and fine-grained, it looks as surreal as Velvia. Maybe different speeds will be different; Provia 400, Velvia 100, etc. Is Velvia 100 any different than 50? I like RVP, but it isn't a good general use film. Is the 100 version any better for skin?

    I would love to find a good E6 substitute for MF, but for 35mm I will shoot Kodachrome as long as it is possible for me to purchase it and get it processed. There is no equal and there never will be.
     
  9. Mark Antony

    Mark Antony Member

    Messages:
    790
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Location:
    East Anglia,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Kodachrome for me has a unique look and I'm not sure that there is an equivalent E-6.
    That said for most stuff I find I like Fuji Astia, if colour accuracy and nice skin is your goal.
    Here is a snap:
    [​IMG]
    Mark
     
  10. nsouto

    nsouto Subscriber

    Messages:
    518
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Location:
    Sydney Austr
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'd have to second Astia. Used to shoot K64 and K25 back in the 70s and 80s. For a number of off topic reasons, I didn't do much film in the 90s and early 00s.

    Now back in full force and have been using Astia with great success as a chrome sub. Velvia is different, and has its place of course. But Astia gives me the nearest results to K64. And Fuji has been improving and changing it, it's even easier to scan nowadays, if that is your cuppa.
     
  11. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

    Messages:
    1,749
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    Tufts Univer
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Velvia 50 was the original. It is not accurate and bad for portraits. Velvia 100F is a "watered down" version which is more accurate, so I'd assume it's better for portraits. Velvia 100 is like velvia 50 but cooler.

    I would just use portrait films for skin, like provia.
     
  12. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,130
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Velvia 50 was not the same as the original Fuji 50D, which I much preferred, along with the 100D.

    The quality of the Fuji 50D & 100D along with its fast, readily available E6 processing meant many of us stopped using Kodachrome (with it's very slow turnaround on processing) many years ago.

    Ian
     
  13. railwayman3

    railwayman3 Member

    Messages:
    2,031
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Well, I shall continue to use K64 while available, but certainly Astia would also be my future choice. As with K64, very accurate colors and gentle contrast. Lovely film. :smile:
     
  14. AutumnJazz

    AutumnJazz Member

    Messages:
    730
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Location:
    Fairfield, C
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I use Velvia for 'scapes, and non-human things, mostly. I want those insane colors when I use it. :smile:

    I use Kodachrome for every kind of subject (as I do B&W).

    Astia looks interesting, from what I can see off of Flickr. I guess I should order some from B&H.
     
  15. accozzaglia

    accozzaglia Member

    Messages:
    559
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Location:
    Sweet home T
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Also, try looking at what people have posted (by film type) on PhotoSIG. It's where I'll look up varieties and results of film I've never tried before.
     
  16. fschifano

    fschifano Member

    Messages:
    3,216
    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Valley Strea
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Sorry to burst your bubble there, but looking for qualities like color palette and accuracy in a digital image tells you exactly zero. There is no way to verify how the image was manipulated before it got posted. It's too easy to change the colors around with the photo editor of your choice. Witness the plug-ins, filters, etc. that are sold to make C-41 films emulate the look of B&W films. That's just another form of color manipulation, so who's to say it can't be done differently? The only way to be sure is to shoot a few different films of similar subjects under similar lighting conditions, then compare them on a light table or by projection.
     
  17. accozzaglia

    accozzaglia Member

    Messages:
    559
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Location:
    Sweet home T
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Whose bubble are you bursting here, fschifano? I don't think anyone was discussing digital palettes and accuracy. I certainly wasn't.

    If by my mention of PhotoSIG it was somehow inferred that this is accepted as gospel as a reference for different emulsions, then it was misread. It's not a mystery that people can and do manipulate their scanned film with regularity. A photographer's time and experience with film photography can of course help parse some of what is claimed by using personal wisdom as a reference guide. Generally, though, if I go to a film category on PhotoSIG or flickr, I pay attention to the overall selection of what people have posted for an idea in a film category to learn what I might expect with a film stock I've never used before. Likewise, use manufacturer reference photos when available.

    Sure, someone might dump a Photoshop filter to make something look like Velvia and then gleefully trick people on a web site, but given the scores of other people who use Velvia, it's reasonable to conclude that others are probably posting unretouched content. And for stupidly obscure emulsions for which there might not be one of those Photoshop filters (like cross-processing Ektrachrome EIR in C-41), there really isn't a ton of incentive for some poster to "fake" it.

    That said, of the regular and favourite stocks I do use (Fujichrome RMS, KR64, RDPIII, HP5+), I know their characteristics very, very well. What I see on PhotoSIG under those emulsion subcategories jibes with my own results, my own reference points, and my own experiences.

    Take PhotoSIG and their ilk with a grain of salt, but I find the resource to be useful in its own way. YMMV.

    (Also, if it's unretouched, look for dust and dirt on the full-size scan. I can't imagine many digital fanatics wanting to manually add in image detritus, but I might very well be way off here.)
     
  18. fschifano

    fschifano Member

    Messages:
    3,216
    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Valley Strea
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I know you were not, but other folks read this stuff too. My comment was directed more to the folks who may not realize that these sorts of manipulations can be and are done. You're right that there isn't a whole lot of incentive for most of these images to be heavily modified. But you just don't know and can't guarantee that they are faithful representations of the originals. Differences in the machinery used to scan the original, the user's settings of the display equipment, and a number of other factors come into play. Some of the manipulation might be intentional, but I'll hazard a guess and say that most of it is mere happenstance.
     
  19. HerrBremerhaven

    HerrBremerhaven Member

    Messages:
    861
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Fuji Astia 100F or the near equivalent Kodak E100G. Slightly warmer would be Kodak E100GX. My preference is for Astia 100F for skin tones. Honestly, I shot one job on Kodachrome and I never liked the look. My preference has always been E-6 films over Kodachrome, though I should mention that I did not grow up with Kodachrome, so there is no nostalgic reason for me to want to use it.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat Photography
     
  20. Matt5791

    Matt5791 Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,003
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Location:
    England, Bir
    Shooter:
    Multi Format