Eastman 5247 processing?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by htmlguru4242, May 29, 2006.

  1. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    In my collection of old films, I had a roll of tungsten-balanced Eastman 5247 film (motion picture re-rolled into a 135 cartridge).

    I shot it just to see what would happen; and now it (obviously) needs to be developed. Is there a way for me to develop this in C-41 color developer?

    I'm aware this film isn't great, but oh well.
     
  2. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

    Messages:
    4,677
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Location:
    Italia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  3. Kino

    Kino Member

    Messages:
    1,730
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The process is ECN-2 (snip)

    Oops! Beat me to the draw, Nick!
     
  4. Konical

    Konical Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,709
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2003
    Good Morning,

    Some years ago, there were several labs on the west coast which specialized in processing this film. I have no idea if they are still in existence.

    Konical
     
  5. dmr

    dmr Member

    Messages:
    494
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Shooter:
    35mm
    IIRC, that has the anti-halation backing on it like Kodachrome, and will majorly foul up a mini-lab machine if you try to run it thru it.
     
  6. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

    Messages:
    2,725
    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Location:
    Woonsocket,
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I've never tried it, but I understand that ECN-2 film can be cross-processed as C-41. From what I hear, the results are likely to be reasonable, given your expectations. The tough part is getting the rem-jet anti-halation backing off; I don't know what techniques would work for this in a small tank.

    Alternatively, there are outfits that will process this film and make prints from it. One is Rocky Mountain Film Lab, but they're pricey and slow. Dale Labs is one that used to ship out such film for use in still cameras and process it. I heard recently that they'll still process ECN-2 film, but I haven't tried to verify that. At the very least, it's worth checking their Web site and perhaps e-mailing them. To the best of my knowledge, PhotoWorks (formerly Seattle FilmWorks) and Signature Color, two labs that used to deliver and process ECN-2 films for still-camera use, will no longer process it, but you might try e-mailing them for suggestions if you don't like the other options.
     
  7. Helen B

    Helen B Member

    Messages:
    1,557
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    Location:
    Hell's Kitch
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes, Dale still process ECN-2 films - that's where I get mine done if I'm using it as still film. They charge $4 per roll for dev only and $12 for dev and print. Be prepared to wait a while because they seem to do them in batches every couple of weeks or so.

    Best,
    Helen
     
  8. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hmmm ... commercial processing ... does it make any difference that the film is [rather] old?
     
  9. Gerald Koch

    Gerald Koch Member

    Messages:
    1,670
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Several things are working against you. First, and most important, the film is old. Second, the C-41 process will produce a different color balance than the correct ECN-2 process for this film. Third, this film is designed to be printed on MP color positive film which has a slightly different color balance than color paper.

    It's possible to process this film in small tanks. The Dignan Newletter gave a workable method. IIRC, the Rem-Jet coating was removed after the stopbath and before the bleach since at this point it could be done under normal room lighting rather than in total darkness before the developer.

    Years ago I processed all told about 100 ft of this film. MP ECN-2 color negative film can produce quite acceptable prints and is fun to play with.
     
  10. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    What's the base color on this film; is it clear or masked like C-41?
     
  11. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

    Messages:
    2,725
    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Location:
    Woonsocket,
    Shooter:
    35mm
    It's masked like C-41, but IIRC the mask is slightly fainter and more yellow than typical C-41 masks. Of course, C-41 masks vary in color from one film to another. My own eyeball judgment is that the ECN-2 films' masks aren't all that far from the C-41 norm, but they are a bit different.
     
  12. Helen B

    Helen B Member

    Messages:
    1,557
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    Location:
    Hell's Kitch
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Now only historical interest:

    EK did produce a film that had a distinctly different mask a few years ago: Primetime 5620 640T. It was unprintable, unless you wanted a weird, muddy mess. It was intended for direct transfer to video so the colour could be taked care of during transfer. For the time it was a high speed film with comparatively low graininess. Unfortunately the radical nature of the film caused problems for colourists (the guys who transfer film to video) and it never really stood a chance. I was involved in the field tests in a small way, and made a short with it - entirely at f/1 and 16⅔ fps (that's 50/3: three fields per film frame at 25 fps PAL, slightly jerky). EK made sure that the transfer was a good one and I was happy with the result.

    Even by modern standards it was not grainy. See the two curves below. One for 5229 Vision2 Expression 500T and one for 5620. Note how the sensitometric curves for 5620 do not have the typical RGB separation (indicating the mask colour) that most colour neg films have - typified by 5229. Also notice how shallow the curve is compared to 5229, which isn't a contrasty film. The lower contrast gives a slightly false graininess comparison: if the contrast of the 5620 has to be increased to give a good image, the advantage is lost. You had to light for it. That didn't help its reputation.

    Best,
    Helen
     

    Attached Files:

  13. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    So back to the original question; since the word on the street seems to be that this can be C-41 cross-processed.

    Does anyone have suggestions for times / temperatures?
     
  14. Helen B

    Helen B Member

    Messages:
    1,557
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    Location:
    Hell's Kitch
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    "Does anyone have suggestions for times / temperatures?"

    If you use C-41 chemicals then C-41 times and temperatures will apply. The only difference is what happens to the Rem-Jet. One-shot chemicals are one option, filtering the contaminated solutions with a coffee filter is another.

    Best,
    Helen
     
  15. Gerald Koch

    Gerald Koch Member

    Messages:
    1,670
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If you use the C-41 process then you will have to insert a stopbath before the bleaching step. I would suggest a standard 3% solution of acetic acid. Allow the film to remain in the stop for 2 minutes. At this point the film can be exposed to subdued room illumination. Hang the film up and using a damp photo quality sponge, gently, and with one continuous motion, wipe the rem-jet coating from the back of the film. Rinse out the sponge thoroughly and repeat the process until all the coating has been removed. Do not touch the emulsion side of the film at this time. Respool the film onto the reel and continue with the rest of the C-41 process.

    If any particle of the rem-jet coating contacts the emulsion it will stick and cannot be removed. So only wipe the back of the film and do it very carefully. Avoid forcing the coating into the sprocket holes -- use only gentle pressure. Removing the backing before the bleach will prevent particles from contaminating any other solutions and you can get by with only filtering the developer solution.

    BTW, the rem-jet coating consists of carbon particles dispersed in a binder which dissolves in alkaline solutions. In the ECN-2 process the film is first soaked in an alkaline prebath to loosen the coating which is then removed with a water spray. The film then passes into the developer. This has to be done in total darkness which makes it impractical for home processing.
     
  16. ZorkiKat

    ZorkiKat Member

    Messages:
    346
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Location:
    Manila PHILI
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I use C41 home kits for processing eastman films (usually from discarded shortends). These films are masked, and usually are difficult to print conventionally. Scanning them takes care most of the colour cast problems resulting from non-standard processing methods.

    The black backing (I believe part of its function is to "lubricate" the film as it passes through at high speeds through the motion picture camera) can be removed in sodium carbonate solution, stale Dektol, or a laundy-strength solution of TIDE detergent :smile:. I prefer using Tide- put this and the film in a basin, and rub off the black backing with your fingers or with the help of some car chamois.