Edge Fog, loading 120 film into camera

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by davidst, Jul 8, 2009.

  1. davidst

    davidst Member

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    I have trouble loading film 120 format into my cameras. I always seem to get edge fog, sometimes right into the frame, which ruins the neg. I keep the roll tight, I think, and load in "subdued light" as the instructions say. How subdued is "subdued light"? The fog is at the start of the film so I know it is when I load.
    Does anyone else have this problem, any hints? Don't really want to carry a changing bag as some of my cameras are tricky to load. My 120 cameras are Pentax 645, Voigtlander Bessa 1, roll film backs for Linhof and Graflex.
     
  2. Pinholemaster

    Pinholemaster Member

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    I carry a small changing bag when shooting with my Diana's and Holga's, but haven't had this problem with my Hasselblad or Mamiya 7II.

    A changing bag is your best solution.
     
  3. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Do you take the removable sealing label off before or after you put the roll into the back or insert or feed area?

    You can put the roll in first, and with some cameras, it makes a real difference.

    Matt
     
  4. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    For me, "subdued light" means I make sure I am at least casting a shadow over the camera and film when loading and unloading. I can't remember when I had any edge fogging problems.
    Is this occurring with every camera? What films?
    Generally the begining of the roll would be the least likely place, since the roll is presumably factory tight.
    Are you sure it's not occurring in processing?
     
  5. BetterSense

    BetterSense Member

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    I reload my TLR and folder in broad daylight and never had any problems, with PlusX, Neopan 400 or Foma 400. FWIW, I think it's possible to do even in "non-subdued light".
     
  6. fotch

    fotch Member

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    Really crazy of its happening with all your 120 cameras. What film are you using?

    Outdoors I would load in the shade somewhere, never a problem. Usually only use Kodak or Ilford.
     
  7. trexx

    trexx Member

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    645 can be tricker the 66 or 67 as generally they are use an insert and the film is folded backward to fit the insert. It is very easy for the feed spool to loosen while the take up is being threaded. When I had 645 I'd feed out enough of the backing to start the take up. Then place a rubber band around the feed spool. This would keep it tightly bound and eliminated edge fog for me.
     
  8. davidst

    davidst Member

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    I am using TMax 100 and FP4plus 125. I would have thought turning your back on sunlight was enough. I must be letting the roll unwind, but I do try to keep it tight. But it happens almost evry film, straight out of the foil package.
    MattKing's idea may work in my cameras.

    Anyone else have the problem?? Any other ideas??
     
  9. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    I think you'd have to work at getting the roll to unwind that much. I assume you aren't winding beyond the start arrows in the light, and you're lining up the arrows to the proper place on whatever holder/camera. From what you've described, the problem may more likely be in processing. Do you shoot any color, if so do commercially processed color films have the same problem?
    Are you willing to sacrifice a roll and process it straight out of the box?
     
  10. Larry.Manuel

    Larry.Manuel Member

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    Loading my Rolleicord, I slit the paper sticker 3/4 of the way across before putting film in camera. As I finish cutting the sticker [with thumbnail], I keep one thumb or finger pushing lightly on the film roll, so the paper can't loosen. As I feed the paper to the take-up spool, I always have a finger or thumb on the film roll. My friction digit comes off the film only just before I close the camera's back.

    Subdued light - yes, but no more than turning my back to the sun.
     
  11. Willie Jan

    Willie Jan Member

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    if it happens with both films and more cameras, cant it be the development tank?
     
  12. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    My thoughts too.

    Steve
     
  13. WolfTales

    WolfTales Member

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    I get a bit of edge fogging on my 30 year old Yashica Mat 124. I imagine the door just doesn't seal up perfectly anymore. It never really creeps into the image so I just live with it. Maybe try sealing your camera's crevices with black electrical tape.
     
  14. PhotoJim

    PhotoJim Member

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    Are you making sure to keep the rolls of film out of direct sunlight at all times? Direct sunlight on a roll of 120 could cause fogging even if you haven't removed the outer band yet. Ditto, of course, once you've exposed the roll except that it will be the tail end of the film that's affected.
     
  15. Willie Jan

    Willie Jan Member

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    I never had any problems (fuji acros 120) with roll film and light when changing film at location in the sun.
    Using infrared film or higher iso rated film is a different story...
     
  16. Chris Nielsen

    Chris Nielsen Member

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    I've had a couple of edge fog problems with my Rolleicord, I figured maybe it was not the loading but instead the way it was spooling onto the takeup spool. IF you look carefully at the exposed roll a couple of them seemed to end up hard against one end of the roll, although in practise it's not really been an issue
     
  17. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Is it edge fogging or is it an agitation problem when processing? If it is in more than one camera, look for processing problems.

    Steve
     
  18. rmolson

    rmolson Member

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    fogged film

    Had the identical problem with a Yashica D and Bronica SQ magazines Redid all the seals and. still had it., Noticed on the Bronica’s that the fog occurred along the hinged part of the magazine By process of elimination I ended up with only taping the hinged part of the mag but the entire back of the Yashica and then finally unloaded the film from the camera to the developing reels in a changing bag .Since I use to load the reels this way before I had a light tight darkroom it was no problem. PS never solved the problem , worked around it. For some reason, perhaps age ., 120 spools are much harder to handle than they use to be. I sold off a Fuji 690 RF because unloading the spool was next to impossible without damaging the spool or film .
     
  19. voceumana

    voceumana Member

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    I ran some film speed tests last year in my Fuji GW690III. I used Ilford, Foma, Fuji, and Kodak Films. All were loaded/unloaded under the same lighting conditions (indoors).

    The Ilford & Foma showed edge fog. The Kodak & Fuji showed NO edge fog. I suspect Fuji & Kodak hold a little tighter tolerance on their spools and on the paper backing. So now I won't use Ilford & Foma films in 120.

    Charlie
     
  20. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Ok Charlie, your problem is solved. :smile:

    Steve
     
  21. davidst

    davidst Member

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    Will try to keep the roll tighter with "thumb friction" and will also load with tape still in place.
    Thanks all, cheers Dave S