Efke 25 oddity

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Jan Brittenson, Jul 3, 2004.

  1. Jan Brittenson

    Jan Brittenson Member

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    Just shot my first couple of rolls of Efke R25. Developed in Microdol-X 1:1 10min 68F, seems OK. Fixed in TF-4 with a rinse between dev/fix. Wash, then 30sec in PhotoFlo and up to dry.

    Hmm... what's this? There's something gummy on my film! On one of the rolls, along the edges of the first frame is something sticky, like sticker glue. I pull some off, leave some on. Now that the film has dried the gum is hard. Never seen anything like it before! What on earth is this?! :confused:

    Looks like a very nice film! :cool:
     
  2. Christian Olivet

    Christian Olivet Member

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    Efke films have a light coating of gelating on top of the emulsion to protect it. You did not mention presoaking the film in water before development.
    You must presoak to get rid off this gelatin or at lest to soften it up enough that it dissolves when developing. I bet that is it.
     
  3. Jan Brittenson

    Jan Brittenson Member

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    Hmm, no I didn't presoak...
     
  4. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    christian ...

    i've heard great things about ekfe film and i've wanted to give it a try. do all their films have a gelatine layer (sheet film) or is it only on their roll films.

    thanks!
    -john
     
  5. David R Munson

    David R Munson Member

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    I once had a similar thing happen. I was able to trace it back to the last rolls of film that I had developed, which I had dried on the reel in a hot-air dryer. Some of the emulsion from those rolls had stuck to the reels when I took them off. When I later developed more film, the emulsion on the reels decided to migrate to the film surface and deposit itself there. It was a weird thing, so I doubt that what happened here is the same thing, but who knows....thought I'd throw it out there.
     
  6. gma

    gma Member

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    Efke 25 is a unique film that you might enjoy. Efke and some other films require a water prewash to remove that anti-halation dye before developing. It does not harm any b&w film to prewash for 1 minute. I prewash all sheet film in the Yankee tank.

    I do not think that the lack of prewashing would cause a gummy residue as you describe. I also suspect contamination in the reel or tank.
     
  7. Jan Brittenson

    Jan Brittenson Member

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    I already like this film! I put a couple of frames from the first two rolls here and here in my photo.net portfolio.

    I kind of suspected contamination, but there was also another roll of R25 and three rolls of 35mm Delta 400 in the same tank. The gummy edges are next to frame one, which of course is the tail end going on the reel. I did brush the reels clean the day before under running water, perhaps there was something on the brush I used. Seems awfully remote though.

    I didn't have any problems getting the dye off in the wash. I can understand the reason for presoaking with a 4 or 5 minute type developer like HC-110, but diluted Microdol-X isn't exactly rapid...
     
  8. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Jan, I love your pictures!

    No film has been subject of so much rumor and just plain bovine excreta as EFKE R25. It's a film. It's as close as it's possible to get to the old ADOX R25. But it's not a thick-emulsion film, and there's no voodoo necessary to use it.

    It no more requires pre-wash than any other film on the market. But pre-wash is often a good idea anyhow, at least IMHO. It certainly doesn't hurt.

    It has no extra gelatine layer that must be removed. There is nothing at all that must be removed, and the film needs no extra precautions.

    Maybe the gummy residue was just that - excess sticker glue? The roll films are taped to the backing; it's quite possible they've had a minor accident with the tape...
     
  9. gma

    gma Member

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    Jan,

    The shell pictures are really beautiful. You are a master of the light painting technique. I have used the EFKE in 35 mm only.
     
  10. Christian Olivet

    Christian Olivet Member

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    There is a long thread regarding the gelating coating of Efke films at michaelandpaula.com forum. If you are interested look under the category "Developing film" and look for the thread "Uneven Stain". It might be of help. At least you will see that Efke films do have a gelating coating on top of the emulsion, and that they must be presoaked to get even results. I had seen my prints come up blotchy because of this very thing. Once I started presoaking the problem went away.

    So who knows... It might be taht or maybe like you said it is a matter of contamination.

    Good luck!
     
  11. Jan Brittenson

    Jan Brittenson Member

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    I'll certainly presoak the next batch! It's just that I haven't shot films for which it was strongly recommended until now. Just didn't think of it for the R25. It's even on J&C's developing page, I vaguely remembered seeing it after your suggestion.
     
  12. mobtown_4x5

    mobtown_4x5 Member

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    you rock

    these shell pictures are awesome- I'd settle for gummy film all the time if I had half your talent-

    Matt
     
  13. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    I've developed Efke 25 in 120 format using stainless steel reels and haven't had a problem with any residue on the film, so I know this isn't an "every time" problem. I do pre-soak everything (usually 1 minute with 10 seconds of gentle agitation to start and 10 more after 30 seconds).

    After reading as much as I could on film production, I thought all old-style B&W films had a thin gelatine coating to protect the emulsion. Regardless of whether they do or do not, I'd think any coating on the front or back of the film would be washed away with either a quick soak or with the liquid in the developer.

    If the sticky stuff is on the short side of the film, my money's on the glue from the tape that holds the film to the backing. (I know that I found this tape a little harder to remove on the Efke films than on most.) If it's on the long side of the film, then my suspicion definately leans toward something on the reels. If you're using stainless steel reels, just soak them in very hot water for a little while and dry them thoroughly before you use them again.

    The pictures to which you posted links are gorgeous. Obviously this is a film you can work with and get great results. I hope you find a way to deal with this residue problem.
     
  14. Jan Brittenson

    Jan Brittenson Member

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    I developed another 4 rolls last night -- 1 roll of R25, 3 rolls of R100. Presoaked 2 min with a vigorous maraccas shake to get water in everywhere and plus a few turns every 30 sec or so, then developed like I normally do. This time I used the same reels I had used for the 35mm Delta400 the day before (adjusted to 120), so I knew they were clean. Again, I got a small area of sticky residue along the edge of the 25. Nothing on any of the 100. Hmm...

    The residue doesn't quite reach the frame, but is wider than the depth of the (plastic) reels.

    Thanks for the nice comments on the shells! *blush*
     
  15. David A. James

    David A. James Member

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    Efke R25

    Ole, you are right on in your assessment of Efke R25. I would say, however, that it is closer in tonal scale to the old, discontinued ORWO 25 (then East Germany) than Adox. In fact, I would guess that Efke employs ORWO film support (substrate) for its current emulsions. Great film! Delivers amazing shadow detail, loves long exposures and doesn't block-up highlights. However, it is a good practice to pre-soak the film simply because it prevents any tendency to mottle in large hand-tanks (5 plus reels). I use the film with Acufine Developer because I like the grain structure that results and the negatives are clean and crisp. I could do without the increase in speed. Of course, Acufine is a very energetic developer which is all the more reason to presoak.

    My experience is only with 120 6X6 cm negatives (since 1959) mostly landscape and fine art. Regards, David James.

    arial
     
  16. David A. James

    David A. James Member

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    Efke R25

    Ole, you are right on in your assessment of Efke R25. I would say, however, that it is closer in tonal scale to the old, discontinued ORWO 25 (then East Germany) than Adox. In fact, I would guess that Efke employs ORWO film support (substrate) for its current emulsions. Great film! Delivers amazing shadow detail, loves long exposures and doesn't block-up highlights. However, it is a good practice to pre-soak the film simply because it prevents any tendency to mottle in large hand-tanks (5 plus reels). I use the film with Acufine Developer because I like the grain structure that results and the negatives are clean and crisp. I could do without the increase in speed. Of course, Acufine is a very energetic developer which is all the more reason to presoak.

    My experience is only with 120 6X6 cm negatives (since 1959) mostly landscape and fine art. Regards, David James.

    arial
     
  17. Jan Brittenson

    Jan Brittenson Member

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    I've run a few rolls from a new 10-pack ordered separately, and have yet to have the gumminess recur. So I think there might be something marginal about the film I received the first time. No biggie though, I'll still use it.

    I love this film... Detail down into the deep darks, highlights roll off nicely, slightly more prone to halation in high-contrast areas than Delta100. Nice, rich tonal scale. But yet nice local contrast and clear detail rendition. Wonderful! I might try a different developer than Microdol-X though: while Delta100 produces crisp superfine details, Efke 25 tends to go a little soft before the grain sets in. I think I'll try it with Rodinal or Diafine, and I have a bottle of FX-39 open. (Hmm, I wonder how Efke 25 and FX-39 combine...)