EFKE 25 vs. EFKE 100 - differences?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Scott Peters, Oct 24, 2007.

  1. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Curious, as a user of EFKE 100 in 7x17 and 8x10 sheet film, it was suggested that I may want to try EFKE 25...What are the main differences in the films from users please? I am using sheet film and contact printing so grain is not an issue for me. I am more interested in characteristics, like contrast, tone, effectiveness in low sbr, or high sbr, etc. Speed is also not a real issue as EFKE 100 is already pretty slow...

    Any thoughts out there?

    Thank you!
     
  2. MarkS

    MarkS Member

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    In general; the slower a film, the finer the grain, and the higher the inherent contrast. You won't see the grain size reduction in a contact print. So in your case, you might try Efke 25 if you want more brilliant highlights and deeper shadows (compared to your 100-speed film). Of course you can compensate for this, to a degree, by increasing exposure and reducing development; which will lead you to some very long exposures. Myself, I prefer faster films for their longer tonal scale, (which for me translates into richer shadows) and don't enlarge my 4x5 negs very far.
     
  3. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Efke 25 has more of an orthochromatic/panchromatic light sensitivity, so depending on your subject matter you could get a different tonal rendition of various objects. The lack of red sensitivity (not complete, but almost complete) will affect the tonal scale a bit. I like both films, but have settled on others for reasons of availability. In your case, shooting 7x17, I'm sure it's the other way around. Hard to find anything but Efke and a couple of others.
    - Thomas
     
  4. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Yes, it is. Plus it's a lot less expensive....in 8x10 it's not as big of an issue in regards to cost, but in 7x17 films other than efke are 50% more to 75% more....and I do shoot quite a bit of film through 7x17...

    sounds like efke 25 may be a better choice in low sbr situations?
     
  5. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    I always thought that the Efke film was great in low light situation, which would of course be a fairly low sbr. The film adds a little extra oomph and punch to a scene with dull lighting.
    With that said it also looks great with objects that sparkle, like metal, glass, and those types of things. I think you'll have fun using it.
    - Thomas
     
  6. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Thomas, is this with the 100 or 25 in your experience? Thanks. Scott
     
  7. rwyoung

    rwyoung Member

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    Alex Hawley has some horror stories for you about Efke 8x10 and 7x17...
     
  8. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    hmm, are you referring to the quality issues? I have gone through several hundred sheets at least with no quality issues as of yet? I will keep fingers crossed...again, more interested at the 7x17 level difference between 100 and 25....Thanks, Scott
     
  9. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    Scott, consider yourself lucky.

    With respect to your original question, give me a couple weeks and I'll have a data point. I've got two 4x5 negs waiting to print; one shot on Efke 25, one shot on FP4; same subject place and time, both shot with a yellow filter on the lens. I want to see what the difference which will be my deciding factor on using Efke 25 with the 7x17.
     
  10. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Scott, the 25. I haven't used the 100 under such circumstances.
    - Thomas

     
  11. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Thank you Alex. Please post your findings. FP4 is a nice film...will be interesting to see comparisons. How do you develop your negs? I use pyro mc. Glad that I have not had issues...but I do have several boxes in the freezer...sorry to hear you had issues.
     
  12. Jim Fitzgerald

    Jim Fitzgerald Member

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    Scott, I've used a little of both films mainly in 4x5. I have some Pl 100 in the fridge for the 8x20 and will get to that as soon as I finish the Bergger 200. The one thing for me that I like about the 25 is that it seems to have better reciprocity than the 100. I often shoot in low light and need the punch that it delivers. I love the look of both of these films and will be getting some 25 for the 8x10 and 8x20 as time and $$$ allow. I have been using Pyrocat HD 1:1:150 minimal agitation in tanks to develop the negs. I usually rate the 25 @ 12 and the 100 @50-80. I have some shots in my gallery using both films. I like the fact that it will make my 8x20 much more affordable to use. I am in love with the format.

    Jim
     
  13. noseoil

    noseoil Member

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    Just another heads-up for efke 25. If you are shooting landscapes with sky and clouds, use a yellow filter (not a red filter). Due to the 25's ortho component, if blue skies are exposed without a filter they will be nearly white. The yellow filter will correct this back to a more natural tonality in the print. I agree with Jim in that the 25 is capable of some very nice tonalities, especially in flat light. This is due to the huge amount of contrast available inherently in the film. A mild dilution, as Jim suggests, is the way to go as it is easier to control contrast with a gentle development. A harsh developer will be difficult to gauge contrast without a densitometer or very tight controls on time and temperature.

    The 25 is great for snappy prints in flat light, the 100 is fine for reducing contrast in the most harsh light and contrast you can find. Best, tim
     
  14. Harrigan

    Harrigan Member

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    I have used some Efke 25 in 8x10. Since I live in VA and require orange to red filtration to get even mildly darkened skies (not black), I find the 25 not really useful here due to it's limited spectral response. I just prefer to use films that have a full response so I can use whatever filters I want. However it does seem to shoot well with yellow filtration.

    You may find the difference btwn 25 and 100 can be a problem in terms of exposure times, especially if you start adding filters. A 1 stop filter and you're already down to 12. Also efke films have terrible reciprocity compared to modern emulsions but you already know that.
     
  15. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Tim, Thank you! Exactly what I was looking for and my experience with the 100 (great in bright light and contrasty situations...) - am glad to hear from you and others that the 25 can work better in flat light....I was looking for an alternative at a reasonable cost in 7x17....I will give it a try...
     
  16. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Thanks for the heads up on filtration - and 'sky' issues...will stick to yellow for landscapes that include sky.
     
  17. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    I respectfully beg to differ with that comment for PL 25. I has excellent an excellent reciprocity characteristic. Here are the published adjustments:
    Exposure 1 second 1/6 stop
    10 seconds 1/3 stop
    100 seconds 2/3 stop

    Compare that to a typical B&W film which is up 1, 2, and 3 stops at those respective speeds. PL100s fall in this category.

    Scott, I've made some shots in flat light on a flat subject with PL100. The particular subject was a steam railroad locomotive which is uniformly deep black. This film held texture and detail even down into the shadows that were already black. It works as advertised.

    I'll post my landscape comparison scans here in this thread. May be a couple weeks thought until I get them printed. Jim, one of my main reasons for doing this evaluation concerns ULF film for landscape work in the 7x17.
     
  18. Jim Fitzgerald

    Jim Fitzgerald Member

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    Alex, I agree with the reciprocity values of the Efke 25. I like the look of both films. I typically am shooting at long times in flat light and I appreciate the reciprocity of the 25. I also love the Pl100 and the ability you have to control it in development. I recently shot about 50 sheets at the Owens valley Workshop and I have some of the sharpest negs I've ever seen using this film. Yes the lenses and technique are important. For me I think I will carry holders with both films in them. I have not shot boxes and boxes but what I've done so far I like very much. Both films are available in 8x20 and in order to prefect my craft with this format I need to get out and shoot. Efke films are affordable and therefore allow me to shoot more film. I would love to see your comparisons.


    Jim
     
  19. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Alex, I appreciate your shadow detail on the 100. But, I have found that with EFKE 100 in low sbr that if I want to build density in the highlights in pyro mc, I have to develop it in trays for a very long time and even then, I sometimes have trouble building density in the highlights as I would like. From the posts it would appear that efke 25 may be better for this?
     
  20. Harrigan

    Harrigan Member

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    Sorry I didn't use efke 25 enough to provide those specific reciprocity figures, I was simply comparing in my head to tmax type film which has excellent reciprocity. I would like to see a specific comparison btwn the efke 25, 100 and tmx 100 reciprocity figures if anyone has them conveniently located?

    I skip efke 25 and 50 solely due to its spectral response, no other reason really.
     
  21. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    Duhhhh. I meant PL 25 not PL 100. My bad. But, Scott made the corect conclusion; PL 25 is excellent in low SBRs which was what that black locomotive was.

    This other scene that I've been promising to print is a landscape shot facing into high sunlight. It was pretty flat too. I had a hard time finding a couple good areas to meter on.