Efke Newbie

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by yeknom02, Jan 22, 2011.

  1. yeknom02

    yeknom02 Member

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    After hearing good things about the sharpness of Agfa APX 25 (now dead), I decided that I should try out a bunch of lower-speed films to see what they look like. I ordered some Plus-X and FP4+ (yes I know they're really medium speed), and also some Pan F and Efke KB 25. (Note: other emulsion suggestions also welcome)

    I decided to try the Efke first. Quite frankly, because the blue base (anti-halation coating?) just looks awesome. However, from what I can gather on the forums it is an "old-style" and "more delicate" emulsion. Beyond recommended times and the replacement-if-defective notice, there are no special instructions inside the box.

    I am wondering if anyone has some hard-learned lessons they would be willing to share before I try shooting and processing it. I plan on using Agfa Rodinal (looking for sharpness), with Zonal Pro stop bath and rapid fixer. I use the Ilford method of washing, and I typically use a bit of Kodak Photo Flo. I also hang the roll in the shower to dry. (Edit: I also just got a Paterson hose for my tank to try washing the non-Ilford way.)

    So any suggested changes in my working process to ensure I get the most out of this film?
     
  2. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

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    the efke films are prone to processing mistakes and is not the best film to learn on. Pyro developers will give an advantage as they stain and harden the emulsion. use a hardener in the fix. these films will give beautiful results if used correctly; and scratches etc if not. but go and try because that is THE ONLY way you will learn anything
    the asa on these film are usually 3/4 to 1/2 of stated box speed
    Best, Peter
     
  3. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Subscriber

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    It's beautiful in Rodinal.
    I wouldn't use a stop bath, just a water rinse.
    G.
     
  4. yeknom02

    yeknom02 Member

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    Thanks Peter,

    I agree - I'm never really going to know what this film is like if I don't try it out, so I've got a healthy can-do attitude at the moment. Is there a hardener I can add to the fixer, or do I need to mix up some hardening fixer? And regarding your ASA comment... does that mean the ASA is more like 50 or more like 12?

    I'm hesitant to look at Pyro since it is apparently toxic, and I also would like to get a good feel for Rodinal first.
     
  5. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    For 35mm You might wanna try Adox CMS 20, ADOX ortho 25 or even ADOX Pan 25.
    There are some images, shot on Adox CMS 20 in my gallery.
     
  6. yeknom02

    yeknom02 Member

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    I was thinking of trying Adox as well, but I didn't know the differences between all those different emulsions you listed.
     
  7. JSebrof

    JSebrof Member

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    +1 for the Rodinal, Amazing!
     
  8. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    Adox CMS 20 is orthopanchromatic
    ADOX ortho 25 is orthochromatic
    ADOX Pan 25 is panchromatic
    You might check Adox site, they have the technical data for all of them and You can decide which film curve will meet Your needs.
    Also, keep in mind that Adox CMS 20 works best in its dedicated developer Adotech..
    Not that I haven't developed it in Rodinal :whistling:

    Good luck
     
  9. sandermarijn

    sandermarijn Member

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  10. mikebarger

    mikebarger Member

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    Water is toxic if you drink enough of it.
     
  11. Moopheus

    Moopheus Member

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    I think the next guy who says that again should be required to demonstrate.
     
  12. yeknom02

    yeknom02 Member

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    Mark Anthony Smith is the guy behind Photo Utopia? I love that blog. I always see if there's a 1+50 or 1+100 Rodinal dilution on the Massive Dev. Chart, so I'm glad to see that his blog post recommends 1+100.

    I have never heard of "Orthopanchromatic." I assume it means that you have only slightly darker "reds?"
     
  13. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    Yes, I do have a few "hard-learned lessons" to share.

    1) Use a very carefully controlled process. Do not let temperature vary much between chemicals and wash water. (This includes hypo clear and Photo Flo.)

    2) Avoid major changes in pH from chemical to chemical. Skip the stop bath (recommended by Efke) and try to use an alkaline fixer. Avoid strong developers with sodium carbonate, such as D-19.

    3) Avoid touching the emulsion when the film is wet. This can sometimes be hard if tray processing sheet film, which leads to my next point.

    4) With sheet film, use either tray sloshers or hangers/tanks instead of using the shuffling method. There are always plenty of people in these threads who report being able to pull this off, but it is magic to me. I always got scratches when doing it, even with modern thin, hardened emulsions.

    Also good to know is that the spectral sensitivity of these films leans just a bit toward orthochromatic.

    The 100 is my favorite for sheet film. I like to shoot it hand held in 4x5 cameras. It is nice and flat, and grainy for a 100 film, by today's standards.

    All of the speeds are grainier than a modern film of the same speed would be expected to be.

    The 50 has the most contrast IME.

    The films compress the highlights much more strongly than modern films. Sometimes this is something to use, and other times it is something to avoid.
     
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  15. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    In the case of Adox CMS 20 Reds are darker since the sensitivity drops after ~ 610nm. You have spectral sensitivity punch in the deep Violet (~400nm), true Green (~530nm) and Yellow-Orange (~590nm).. on top of that, its kind of blind for Blue (~460nm) & blue-cyan (~480nm).
     
  16. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Subscriber

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    Good point from Peter, Pyro is great with Efke 25. You don't risk much with Pyro dev with such a high dilution.
    And the tanning effect is a good protection for your negative.
    But Rodinal, 1+50 or 1+100 is also stunning.
    You don't really need a hardening fix for roll film.
    Follow 2F/2F points and you will be fine.
     
  17. JSebrof

    JSebrof Member

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    When I tried Pyro and Efke 25 last I found I didn't get very much stain. This was back in 2007 and I was comparing it to the stain I got with Bergger 200.
     
  18. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

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    all films stain differently....please proof afterwards to see what you have done and it will be a check for your workflow....meter;shutter; dev process....proof is in the proof
    there are fix hardeners available I think from BFK....a chems mfg
    with some films you do get what you pay for....try tny2 if you want to see a fine grain film at 400 asa
    Best, Peter
     
  19. yeknom02

    yeknom02 Member

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    Re: 2F/2F's #3 point - So would a plastic film squeegee be safe to use on the film when it's time to dry?

    I bought some Kodafix solution today, which I'm told is a hardening fixer. But I was also told that I can't use it with TMax or Ilford Delta films, as they are pre-hardened more than most other modern emulsions. Can anyone verify or refute this?
     
  20. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    BTW, Efke and Adox CHS are the same emulsion. If you are shooting 120, get the Adox instead, as it comes with a reusable film canister.
     
  21. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    Not in my experience. Take it out of the reel carefully after you have used a wetting agent in the final rinse so the water sheets off - Photoflo, Ilfoflo, Edwals, something_you_prefer - and hang it to dry without touching it. No squeegee, no finger wiping, nothing. (This is why the wetting agent is important, so the water won't spot the emulsion.

    Unlike most people recommend, I do not change my fixer mix from my regular routine, so I'm *NOT* using a hardening fixer. And you really can wreck the emulsion if you aren't gentle.


    Can't say. I use rapid fixer.
     
  22. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Do not use a squeegee on any portion of the film that has emulsion or an image - scratches are likely!

    A hardening fixer works fine with TMax or Delta films - you just have to be sure that they are well washed. I use a wash aid like Hypo Clearing agent for all my films, and would recommend it particularly for those who use hardening fixer.

    Most likely you don't want to use a hardening fixer for prints, especially if you want to tone them.
     
  23. yeknom02

    yeknom02 Member

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    This is actually the first recommendation I've received for using a hypo clearing agent for film. Thus far I've heard that it's unnecessary for anything other than fiber prints.

    Any way to tell whether my past films have residual fixer on them?
     
  24. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Georg;

    Please explain ortho-panchromatic.

    Thanks.

    PE
     
  25. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    You may find the test results in this thread informative:

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/84180-film-washing-test.html

    The Kodak publications all tend to recommend HCA, as the alternative that saves time and water.
     
  26. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    ortho-panchromatic is telling us that the manufacturer ran out of red sensitizing dye :D
    Typical examples of ortho-panchromatic are Fuji Neopan Acros 100, Adox CMS 20 and whoever join :wink:
    Let the attached spectral sensitivity curves comparison do rest of the talk :smile:
     

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