Ektachrome with Rodinal & C41?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Dave Pritchard, Dec 13, 2009.

  1. Dave Pritchard

    Dave Pritchard Member

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    I've got a 35mm bulk loader, with film in it, labeled: EASTMAN EKACHROME TUNGSTEN - ASA 125. I loaded some into a cassette and plan to shoot it.

    I do not have E6 chemistry on hand. I want to process this myself, and do not want to order more chemistry and wait for it. My goal is to have fun and create some neat images. What can I do with what I have?

    Chemistry on hand:
    1. Flexicolor C41 chemistry
    2. E-6 bleach
    3. E-6 final rinse
    4. Rodinal
    5. T-Max developer
    6. Fixer, Stop, PhotoFlo, etc.

    I could just use this old film to make black & white images, but some form of color would be neat. Any ideas?
     
  2. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    Your process would be Rodinal, expose to light, develop in c41 developer to completion (hold it at 100 degrees for 6 minutes or so), bleach, fix, final rinse. You'll have to fiddle with times and temps and figure out your dilution for the right activity. It's normally 6-7 minutes at 100 degrees for the first developer. Try different dilutions until your slides look good. I think rodinal activates a little bit of the dyes so you might want to try something else to get good whites.
     
  3. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    would c-41 bleach and fix work too?

    hc-110 ok? I'm interested in trying this myself too :smile:

    -Dan
     
  4. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    I was under the impression it would work. The two bleaches have different specifications. E6 bleach is an older type, and supposedly more concentrated. I think you could use it though just make sure you bleach to completion.

    I assume so. I think the dye activation property of rodinal is very unusual.
     
  5. Daire Quinlan

    Daire Quinlan Member

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    I actually tried something similar recently, roll of Provia 100f. I used Diafine as a first dev, exposed to light, then developed in C-41. What came out the far end were really dense slides, they looked about 2 or 3 stops underexposed. The colours were surprisingly all right (bit of a blueish cast) and they scanned reasonably well.

    I think the general consensus is that the first B&W dev has to be pretty active. Diafine just didn't do the trick, I reckon its nominal speed for C-41 or E-6 is probably a couple of stops slower for a start. I'm going to bracket the next roll +1 +2 and maybe try and develop half of it twice in diafine and half the once and see what happens.

    Some results are here:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/dairequinlan/sets/72157622874269697/
     
  6. Dave Pritchard

    Dave Pritchard Member

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    Daire, I am impressed with your results. This is very encouraging. It's nice to see that someone actually has done this with good results.
     
  7. erikg

    erikg Member

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    I've done this with Acufine as the first developer. I used a C-41 kit for the rest of the process, to get a color neg. Worked well, great looking grain.
     
  8. nickrapak

    nickrapak Member

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    ASA 125 Tungsten sounds like VNF, an old film used for news shows. I don't know whether it was produced in 35mm, but I don't know of any other 125 ASA Ektachrome film. If it is, it requires VNF processing, which is different than E-6, although I don't know how different.
     
  9. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    now when re-exposing to the light, do you have to make sure the source is daylight balanced, or does it not matter?

    and how long to re-expose? like, take it off the spool, hold it up to a light, and re-load onto the reel?

    -Dan
     
  10. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    If you're just trying it out I think taking the reel out of the tank in somewhat bright light should be fine. IT doesn't have to be particularly accurate, though there is such thing as too much re-exposure. Don't worry about it when starting off. I do remember that your first developer has to be fairly long. Much longer than typical b+w films.
     
  11. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    so, develop for the 1st dev time, as if doing e6? all process is at 100f, just like c41?

    sorry for all the q's I just want to try this out! and this is the last week of the semester, so free processing :smile:

    -Dan
     
  12. Daire Quinlan

    Daire Quinlan Member

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    well, when I did it I had the first dev step at 20c, but it was Diafine so I don't think it would have made much of a difference either way ...
     
  13. Rhodes

    Rhodes Member

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    Just question since I'm a do not know anything about slide films develop, why the need to re-exposure to light? And can it be take the film out of the reel and exposure to sun light? Or any light?
     
  14. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    The first developer time will be whatever you find it to be. Start with standard dilution for 6.5 minutes at 100 degrees. If the slides are too dark increase the time of the first developer. The second should go to completion so it won't matter as long as it's all getting done.

    Remember that these slides are not going to be optimal without the proper developer. They will probably fade and have weird dmax and color shifts.

    Rhodes: The normal E6 process includes a chemical that fogs the film for you. Since you don't have it, you'll have to re expose to light. Any light will do. Just use enough and not too much. Simple, right?
     
  15. Daire Quinlan

    Daire Quinlan Member

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    I probably went wrong there aswell. I hung mine up to dry (so I could get it back on the spool for the C-41 step) in full sunlight for about half an hour or so ! If that doesn't qualify as too much then I don't know what does. I reckoned that it was a kind of 'exposure to completion' step if you know what I mean, all the remaining unexposed silver to be exposed for the 2nd dev stage.

    Maybe next time I'll reel it out in darkness and maybe give it one pop of a strobe or something. The problem then is waiting for it to dry, I don't think I have anywhere available that's completely dark that would do the trick.
     
  16. railwayman3

    railwayman3 Member

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    I've an empty carton for a roll of 35mm "High Speed Ektachrome Type B" for tungsten, expiry early 1970's, and 125 ASA. It was labelled for the older E-4 process.
     
  17. Rhodes

    Rhodes Member

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    I see, thank you tiberius!
     
  18. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    DanielStone: Doesn't matter, as long as it you give it a reasonable amount of exposure, and leave it in the colour developer (C41) long enough.

    I've done this kind of thing a lot.

    C41 films as reversal in 1+50 Rodinal need 40c and 2 hour 20 min for proper development at box speed, plenty of agitation.

    1+25 is with one level teaspoon of salt per 300ml of working solution is 20c, 10min, plenty of agitation.


    But 1+25 cannot be used for reversing because it develops colour dyes, you will get 'black' slides, you would then need to fix, bleach, re-expose, Colour Dev (C41 or E6 CD, I use E6 CD and get excellent results), bleach, fix, etc.

    Here is the 1+25 method described above, gives a colour neg on either C41 or E6, this is german supermarket ISO200 film, expired.

    [​IMG]

    Also if you use that dilution and time - do not overexpose your C41 film - it will go shitty, you will have plenty of underexposure latitude however.