Emergency Help Required regarding Sodium Carbonate

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Bob Carnie, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Ok I feel like a complete dolt... I have subjects coming in tomorrow to have portraits done using my Sabbatair/Solarization technique.

    I am mixing the chemicals right now... as follows

    metol 144grams
    sodium sulphite 440grams
    sodium carbonite 420 grams
    sodium bromide 56 grams

    hot water to make 12 litres....... HORRORS ON HORRORS ... I only have 200 g of sodium carbonate.

    Ok so its a form of baking soda... somewhat... is there a product at our local food store that I could use ... ie baking soda 200 grams or am I screwed.

    If I cannot replace the missing 200grams what dire effect could I have by being short of this component.

    I really am in a spot as our Chemical Dealer is closed, I AM A MORON FOR NOT CHECKING MY CHEMS. any help.
     
  2. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Subscriber

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    Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, washing soda is sodium carbonate.


    Steve.
     
  3. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Ok so can I buy washing soda at a local grocery store and be considered safe to add to my developer

    QUOTE=Steve Smith;1324092]Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, washing soda is sodium carbonate.


    Steve.[/QUOTE]
     
  4. CGW

    CGW Restricted Access

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    Arm & Hammer makes a washing soda that should be available at Walmart, Loblaws or other super-markets around the GTA. NO clue whether it will blow you and the lab up *^)
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Bob;

    Is your Sodium Carbonate the anhydrous or the monohydrate? The Arm and Hammer is probably the monohydrate. If yours and theirs are the same, then you can use the washing soda, but if one is the anhydrous and the other is the monohydrate, then you must compensate for the difference.

    PE
     
  6. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Hi Ron

    Sodium Carbonate
    Dense (soda ash)
    Na2 CO3 Molecular Weight 105.99

    powder

    thats on the label

    thanks
    Bob


    I really appreciate all the fast responses


     
  7. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Subscriber

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    Good luck Bob !
    You are not a moron. Shit happens sometime...
     
  8. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    You can convert baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) into very pure sodium carbonate by heating it in the oven. Baking soda is USP grade and so contains fewer impurities than washing soda. Place the baking soda in a glass or SS pan and heat it at 350 F for about an hour. Stir it a couple of times during the process. The fine crystals of baking soda will change to a fine fluffy powder of anhyrous sodium carbonate.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2012
  9. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Ok Bob, then the Arm and Hammer is likely Na2CO3.H2O or 105.66 + 16 = 121.66 therefore the total using all Arm and Hammer would be 121.66 /105.66 or 1.15 x more Arm and Hammer to equal your pure anhydrous stuff.

    That is, provided that the Arm and Hammer is a monohydrate. If the box does not tell you, check their web site or the MSDS for it.

    PE
     
  10. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    You all are the best ,,, less than one hour and my ass is saved... thank you
     
  11. Ian C

    Ian C Member

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    He's not known as "The Wizard of Rochester" without good reason.
     
  12. Ed Bray

    Ed Bray Member

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    Pity you were not closer, I have 20kg bags of Sodium Carbonate (anhydrous) here.
     
  13. Architeuthis

    Architeuthis Member

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    Good luck man!
     
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  15. DarkroomExperimente

    DarkroomExperimente Member

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  16. Worker 11811

    Worker 11811 Member

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    Coffee maker cleaner is often made from sodium carbonate. Usually pure.
    You can buy it at WalMart or the grocery store. Just read the label first.
     
  17. Kirk Keyes

    Kirk Keyes Member

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    If anyone is interested, there's a least a couple threads on APUG (and maybe one on photo.net) where the difference between photographic grade sodium carbonate and soda ash sodium carbonate are thrashed about...

    Edit - I see the thread linked above contains links to the threads I mentioned in it.
     
  18. Worker 11811

    Worker 11811 Member

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    Just read the link at NIH.GOV. Looked up sodium carbonate.

    HtH Ph Plus, the chemical for swimming pools, is 99.8 to 100 percent sodium carbonate.
    It's available at WalMart in the home and garden section where you buy swimming pool chemicals.

    http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-pH-Plus/17043635
     
  19. DarkroomExperimente

    DarkroomExperimente Member

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    I got my sodium carbonate at Walmart as arm&hammer washing soda...my local grocery stores don't seem to sell it anymore...wonder which is cheaper...the washing soda or the pH plus
     
  20. Worker 11811

    Worker 11811 Member

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    Per the link above, WalMart price = $8.47 for 5 lb.
     
  21. DarkroomExperimente

    DarkroomExperimente Member

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    so if this is more pure than the "washing soda" I've been using & bicarbonate is much more available....and heating for an hour in the oven is so easy...seems like a good alternative

    will the anhydrous absorb water from the air and turn into the monohydrate?
     
  22. dpurdy

    dpurdy Subscriber

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    I have used the Arm and Hammer super washing soda in my paper developers with no problem that I noticed. You can also use dye fixative from an art store.
    Dennis
     
  23. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Arm and Hammer worked and I am the proud Dad of some nice negatives..

    thank you all and I will post an image to show the results.
     
  24. DarkroomExperimente

    DarkroomExperimente Member

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    went to Walmart to look at the pool chemicals...

    saw sodium carbonate.....they also had several other chemicals...so be sure to read the label!!
     
  25. Worker 11811

    Worker 11811 Member

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    I went to the NIH and found the name of the product and it was listed as containing 99.8% to 100% sodium carbonate.
    I looked up the product's MSDS and it says the only ingredient is sodium carbonate. In fact it is listed as CAS no. 000497-19-8, which is anhydrous sodium carbonate.

    NIH website page: http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=1031009
    Product MSDS: http://whatsinproducts.com/msds.php?brandId=11203

    Either somebody's playing fast and loose with the labeling or some website has the wrong information.
     
  26. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Yes it will absorb water from the air so store it in a tightly sealed jar. I have found that canning (mason) jars work very well for storing chemicals. They are readily available, cheap and have a nice wide mouth.