Endura VC mottle problem

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Domin, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. Domin

    Domin Member

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    This week I've bought a roll of Supra Endura VC.

    I've tried it in Tetenal minilab chemistry at room temperature. The result is mottled and black is not right.

    I've located and bought Kodak RT/LU developer and the result at 25C (120 seconds) is the same - ugly mottle. I've tried developing for 180s - seems to look a bit better but still ugly.

    Some old Supra III is fine in the same chemistry. Its somewhat fogged but no mottle.

    I use vinegar stop and somewhat questionable bleach but it works fine with Supra III though.
     
  2. hrst

    hrst Member

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    Have you tried at higher temperatures? It would be very interesting to know. Try to place your trays in a larger tray with water bath.
     
  3. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Member

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    I would question your use of a vinegar stop and non-official RA-4 bleach.
     
  4. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

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    Use a water rinse between your stop, which should be 2%, and the rest of your chems. BTW the Kodak RA/RT stuff works very well at 20-22C and keeps for a long time. I'm just finishing off the batches of dev and blix I mixed up in mid march and just did a test with some I mixed up two days ago, no visible differences. :smile:
     
  5. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    Unless Supra III was a much better paper in terms of not being susceptible to "mottle" then it would seem that we are missing the real problem which I admit I have no idea about. It leaves the possibility that the newer Supra VC Endura is at fault or cannot be used at room temp. There has to be a difference here between Supra III and the newer paper surely?

    pentaxuser
     
  6. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Supra III and Endura are quite different in composition. Supra III kept more poorly than Endura. I can't comment other than this.

    PE
     
  7. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

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  8. Domin

    Domin Member

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    I wanted to avoid that if possible. Looks a major PITA for me. I would very much prefer a chemical solution.

    I'm not sure how to keep the water bath temperature stable for few hours.

    I've replaced the vinegar stop with a rinse and the results were the same.
    I've replaced the questionable blix with separate and different bleach and fix. Results are the same.

    Interesting thing is that I can hardly see the mottle before the bleach step. Perhaps its most pronounced at bottom layers of coating and silver image hides it?

    I'm well aware of that statement. However for the project I want to work on now the higher contrast is what I want and the skin color balance thing is a non issue.
     
  9. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    If you can call Kodak, and give them the emulsion number on the package, you will find out the coating date. The coating may have been old or mishandled with excess heat.

    It may also be defective.

    PE
     
  10. Domin

    Domin Member

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    I have tested the paper with both Tetenal and Kodak developers at about 38C. The result is same as before.

    I again tested whole process with different paper, this time with old Agfa paper which besides fog came out fine.

    The Supra Endura VC is definitely not old. It has both manufacturing (5/2010) and expiry date (11/2011).

    I guess the paper is damaged by heat. This summer was extremely hot here and I haven't seen air conditioning at the dealer I bought the paper.
     
  11. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    There is a coating defect which causes mottle and is due to a problem in the RC support itself IIRC. I suggest that you contact Kodak.

    PE
     
  12. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    I have been advised by a "source" that the current Endura requires more agitation than earlier versions and that you may see some mottle if agitation is marginal. This is sometimes seen in the "digital" versions of Endura.

    PE
     
  13. Domin

    Domin Member

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    When printing color I agitate for all or most time. A least some and probably most of few dozen test prints I did got as much agitation as can give them. None of them are mottle free. There is also a problem with Dmax even with prints developed for twice the normal time.

    I contacted the dealer. He said that if I provide some samples both exposed and unexposed they can be sent back to the factory. He said that from his experience it would take at least a month.

    Meanwhile I'm kind of stuck. The problem with Endura might or might not be inherent to the paper. At the moment I cannot afford the risk of buying another roll of it. From what I've read here there are problems with Fuji paper at room temp. It's really frustrating.