Erwin Puts: 'Photography no longer exists'.

Discussion in 'Ethics and Philosophy' started by Andy K, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2007
  2. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Andy,

    Read all what Puts has published on his site. Interesting, but I see some contradictions between his articles.
     
  3. erikg

    erikg Member

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    First I'd have to ask, "you are just coming to this conclusion now?" It has been discussed for some time that at the core of the digital revolution is the fact that the connection between the image and the moment of exposure (capture if you must) has been fractured. This sets this change far apart from all of the other technological changes that have come before in photography (albumen to silver, color materials etc). As far as photography being drawn into a larger world of art-making, that would be going on any way as most of the non-photographer artists using photographic tools have never cared about mastering technique. We have long had a "push button" mode digital or no. Although it must be said that digital is inevitably drawing different modes of expression together in the art world, still image, video, audio, because in essence the medium is now the same.
     
  4. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council

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    I agree- instead of calling digital "photography", it should be part of "electronica". Since it is now entirely possible to merge still, video, print and virtual image representation, they belong together in a new media and new department. While many would argue that this makes the resulting "photography" obsolete and "old-school", therefore not worth pursuing, the same could be said for silk screen, lithography, etching, and drawing. An argument could even be made for sculpture belonging in that list, since it is now possible with 3-D holography to virtually render sculpture both static and kinetic.
     
  5. Michel Hardy-Vallée

    Michel Hardy-Vallée Membership Council

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    You know what's the big problem with film? It's no longer photography anymore. There's a bunch of clever buggers over yonder who just take hundreds of pictures in a minute and then show it on a screen. And you know what? The pictures, they move!

    Film photography should no longer be called "photography" because it merges with cinema and animation. Did you see Chris Marker's "La Jetée" ? Incredible, the man was mixing still and animated pictures together. There is no longer a difference! Photography is dead!
     
  6. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser

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    in the world of commercial photography, they don't even want a photographer
    nowadays ... they have someone shoot video, then
    the technician (McTech ?) stares at the monitor and
    cherry-pick still images from the - stream - ...
    instead of having someone actually shoot with a "camera" ...
    not to refer to another thread, but it is all "image" not photography ...
     
  7. Daniel_OB

    Daniel_OB Member

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    E. Puts is sometimes ready to visit a hospital, so check before accept what he say or write.
    He advised Leica to run digital to get into the line... and Leica web site (forum) is dieing after they went digital. Here on APUG we have 70,000 visitors to darkroom one single thread. Hundreds times more there are photographers not going to computer at all, or do not knows for APUG...

    And what I did last night: again reproduction of digital image, customer want it as a photograph. So. I have shooting today also, and tomorow also,... So.

    I think personaly what Puts means when he say "photography" is behind the answer, and he is right or should visit a doctor, or he too watch TV a lot.

    www.Leica-R.com
     
  8. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    I predicted this :surprised: Figure the next things in this evolution

    1) Multiple fixed cameras to cover every single angle.

    2) Software to replace the McTech.

    No more event photographers. Instead the arena,wedding hall,church etc will have fixed installed systems and add the cost to the rental.
     
  9. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    ... and those cameras will be linked into the Microsoft mainframe. Your wedding album will be emailed to you before the reception is over and the prints will be whirring out of your printer while you pack for the honeymoon. (all rights to those pics reserved by Microsoft, of course)
     
  10. Daniel_OB

    Daniel_OB Member

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    Puts E.
    Everybody can create technologically perfect images at this moment: the powerful post processing software will take care of all technical hurdles that the film-based photograph had to master...

    This is a core around which his brain revolves. So here is my answer to Mr. Puts:

    It was baptism of a child of one my frind. Everyone had dig. camera, some two cameras in both hands... I had my Nikon F6 and 500-iso film, so no flash, unnoticable shooting. One dig. guy came to me and ask, how you can take picture without flash, your camera is not working....

    To make long short, nearly all of dig. "photogs" came to me to buy some photographs from that baptism, and even I got some new permanent customers. I hope Puts understand philosophy behind this.

    And one think more: no consumer care what he is doing. He care that he is in fashion. My brother even know to say: daniel I take some pictures but I am not a photographer. Well who then bother with that mix of terminology? Equipment manufacturers, schools, and anyone that draws living on "photgraphy" martket. They are the sh**.

    Is photography in danger? NO WAY. Photography is geting what for it is made. It is a medium like painting, sculpture,... art meduim, and so no mass medium any more, thank you my God. What is hapening is what been with painting and drawing when photograpohy came out on the day.

    www.Leica-R.com
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2007
  11. arigram

    arigram Member

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    I am not aware of any artistic medium that is dead or in danger of dying.
    Artists always seek more means of expression and there will always be those who embrace a new or an old medium.
    New mediums of expression are born, old ones don't die.
    There is always more choices for creation, not less.
    "This -medium/style/whatever- is dead" is an invention of attention seeking-close minded critics/historians/artists, but they are always proven wrong.
     
  12. Daniel_OB

    Daniel_OB Member

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    ... and those cameras will be linked into the Microsoft mainframe. Your wedding album will be emailed to you before the reception is over and the prints will be whirring out of your printer while you pack for the honeymoon. (all rights to those pics reserved by Microsoft, of course)

    Plastic bags will cover the Earth all over before it happen. And who will pay fro it? Free. As I have learn whenever someone offer something for free in America, call 911 and Police ASAP.

    www.Leica-R.com
     
  13. Drew B.

    Drew B. Subscriber

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    You mean North America?
     
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  15. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    Actually put a monitor on every table at the reception. People could order copies during the meal. They would get handed them when they leave the reception hall. If any good fights happen during the reception then sales could soar :D
     
  16. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser

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    actually, clients want images burned to disk ( if you shoot with a camera ) before
    the set is broken down ... not even time to edit --- so you aren't that far off :wink:
     
  17. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    To put what Daniel_OB said in a broader context ... the film industry was built on people taking really lousy snapshots. The snapshots provided the income to produce world class professional products for the professionals and serious amateurs. Now the electronic focal planes are used to produce some really crappy images, but the sales of these cameras and camera cell phones are financing the research and development of better electronic focal planes. Furthermore, when the digisnappers see the quality of their images they will run to people like Daniel_OB to get the job done right.

    Steve
     
  18. bruce terry

    bruce terry Member

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    ... and Andy K, a single subliminal, particularly bad-looking, low-grade, free-at-no-charge frame of husband and wife will automatically be emailed to the happy couple every six months to remind them that in the likely event they should divorce, MicroApple will be there for them, for a price.

    ... and Nick, I think you are right, the basic still-image tool will soon be the ubiquitously-handy video camera - and then there will be no more Decisive Moments, just Decisive Editors, of which there are, as always, next to none.

    So long live the tiny, sensual, serene, no-rush, touchy-feely, chemically-driven niche-world of film and film prints, the Analog world, where even if one doesn't edit well, at least one doesn't inundate.
     
  19. clay

    clay Subscriber

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    If everyone is finished patting themselves on the back, I'll get back to work now.
     
  20. scootermm

    scootermm Subscriber

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    I'm somewhat reminded of the "My Child is smarter than your child ... blah blah blah" bumper stickers.

    much like life, words and their definitions evolve
     
  21. HerrBremerhaven

    HerrBremerhaven Member

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    I think a similar comparison could be made between cameras with Program modes, and cameras that only allow manually setting aperture and shutter. We might even add autofocus to that mix, since that makes it far too simple. So automation has sold many cameras, and many of them film cameras, especially P&S cameras. They work fine for 90% of the images people want, and often confuse people wanting to hit that 10% of images they think could have worked better . . . if only they could figure out how to work their camera beyond the automation and Program modes.

    When I put my camera in flower mode, how come I don't get a flower in my shots? If I am taking a picture of a friend, but I had the camera in mountain mode, will the picture turn out? Seriously, it is amazing some of the questions I have heard, and I am not making these up.

    I recall a similar uproar, perhaps even from Erwin, prior to the Leica M7 being released: electronic shutter control, but then you are stuck when the batteries die; aperture priority, but if you don't select the shutter speed yourself then your results will suffer; etc. Then when the M7 came out, many Leica enthusiasts suddenly proclaimed it better than holes in Swiss cheese. Of course, for the still vocal and disgruntled, Leica cranked out the MP a few years later; which is basically just a slightly reworked early M6 with higher price tag.

    The idea that toil creates better photographers, or better images, is not new. Unfortunately neither is it entirely true. I do recall an interview with the creator of the Nikon F6, in which he stated that film photographers have a greater respect for the image. While some people took that wrong at the time he made that statement, what I got from that was that someone shooting film tended to think just a bit more prior to pushing that shutter button.

    Oh, and I got a smile from Daniel's comment about not using flash. Seems I constantly get similar questions from many people, since I do quite a bit of night imaging. The last one was just the other day, when I had one of my 6x9 folder cameras, and Fuji 400X being shot at ISO 3200; a lady came up to me and asked what I was shooting, then asked if the pictures would turn out without flash, and last, after seeing the type of camera, asked if I could still get film for that . . . I suppose somehow all those questions made some sort of sense to her . . . well, maybe photography, as some of us know it, is indeed dead.
    :D

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    A G Studio
     
  22. DannL

    DannL Member

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    A handful of doomsday believers offed themselves prior to the millenium changeover. So yes, the world did come to an end for them. They were correct. For some of us . . . nothing happened, nothing changed.

    There's a latin phrase for that.
     
  23. Removed Account

    Removed Account Member

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    Can you use digital tripods with film cameras? :tongue:

    - Justin
     
  24. Daniel_OB

    Daniel_OB Member

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    you cannot use digital tripod with film camera because it does not have tripod mode. But technology is advancing and advancing and advancing and advvvvvvv colapsing and cooooo
     
  25. Neanderman

    Neanderman Member

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    Some newspapers here in the States have started doing this -- giving their staff "photographers" HD video camaras from which the "photo editor" picks the frame they want.
     
  26. bjorke

    bjorke Member

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    All businesses eventually turn into some guy sitting on his ass in front of a monitor.

    ALL businesses.