even Movie film is not imune it seems..

Discussion in 'Product Availability' started by cmacd123, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Subscriber

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    I fellow from a Movie lab is Australia just posted on the cinematography.com website that he has been told that Plus x reversal 7265 in 16mm and Super 8 as well as Plus-x Motion Picture Negative 7231/5231 in 16mm and 35mm are being phased out.

    see
    http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/PCN040710_Q.pdf

    sure enough the suggested replenishments are Tri-X reversal and Double X negative. So much for the idea of buying some 5231 if regular film becomes hard to get...

    (the Vison2 stocks on that PCN are pobaly all covered off by the newer Vision 3 stocks... Kodak Does introduce NEW products. - I even noticed that Ektar 100 is now shown on Freestyles site as being available in 4X5 and 8X10 Sheet film)
     
  2. Tim Gray

    Tim Gray Member

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    My brother is currently doing his MFA in film and they *never* use Plus-X in 16mm. A lot of the first classes use Tri-X reversal because it teaches you about exposure and you don't have to make a work print or transfer to see your results. The Plus-X stuff doesn't seem to appeal to them because it slow. When they move up to a different stock, it's almost always color negative, though some shoot negative B&W film.

    Still, it stinks. I hope regularly Plus-X will stay around.
     
  3. nickrapak

    nickrapak Member

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    I can use Tri-X for my 8mm work, with an ND filter. But I really hope that Plus-X still film isn't discontinued. That is my favorite B&W film, and I don't have enough money in my bank account to stock up.
     
  4. Metroman

    Metroman Member

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    I wonder how long Double-X has got now!
     
  5. Ektagraphic

    Ektagraphic Member

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    PX (Plus-X) discontinued as movie film.

    I really don't want to see a Kodak bashing thread again but wanted to inform you all that Kodak has discontinued Plus-X movie film in formats 35mm, 16mm, and Super 8. They also took away some of the vision films.

    http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/PCN040710_Q.pdf
     
  6. kraker

    kraker Subscriber

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    Hm, sad news. It's the only B&W Super 8 film I have shot to date. They list TRI-X reversal as a replacement, but I'm not sure my ancient equipment can handle iso 200 film properly. Well, actually I'm pretty sure it can't. :sad:

    Anyway, thanks for posting. "Remember, you heard it here first!". True for me in this case.
     
  7. cfclark

    cfclark Member

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    This comes up as "PX (Plus-X) discontinued..." in the truncated topic listing for the forum--don't startle me like that! (Not that this couldn't be a foreshadowing of that possible eventuality--maybe I should stock up.)
     
  8. Tim Gray

    Tim Gray Member

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    Anybody call Kodak and ask what this means for still Plus-X?
     
  9. SuzanneR

    SuzanneR Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Threads merged.
     
  10. tim elder

    tim elder Member

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    Kodak has not discontinued all of these motion picture films; many were discontinued only in particular amounts of feet or spools / core, such as 100 foot rolls, 800 foot rolls, and even a 1200 foot roll, which I was surprised that they still made.

    Kodak has always phased out older motion picture films as new ones were made and always to the consternation of some who preferred the older version. All of the original Vision films have been discontinued, for example, and replaced with the newer Vision2 or Vision 3 emulsions.

    Tim
     
  11. Tim Gray

    Tim Gray Member

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    Tim, I think you are right, except Plus-X really does look discontinued. Hopefully this doesn't impact the still version.
     
  12. nickrapak

    nickrapak Member

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    I am going to buy a brick of Plus-X in the next few days, and I would urge those of you who shoot Plus-X to do the same. Hopefully we can keep the still version on the shelves for a while longer.
     
  13. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    The way I see it, once MP film goes down the toilet, that's all folks!
     
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  15. Ektagraphic

    Ektagraphic Member

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    Well if they used the exact same master roll of still plus-x for MP I would also agree 2F/2F!
     
  16. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    I am not talking about it so literally as that, Patrick!

    I mean that most of Kodak's (and, I assume, Fuji's) film volume is motion picture film, not still film. It is the ONLY film that still sees heavy use in a professional photographic industry. It is thus the only film that is bought in huge quantities by the actual users (not resellers), and the only film that people have budgets to justify in large quantities. While separate, the health of the MP side of things has to influence decisions on all film across the board. Many of the same materials are used. Perhaps some of the same facilities, supplies, and equipment, are used, though I am not sure. The more film that is made, the cheaper, and the more profitable, it is to make each unit of film. However, the bottom line is just that: the bottom line. Any decline in any film sales hurts Kodak across the board. Any decline in any part of Kodak's business hurts their film division, for that matter! The worse other divisions are doing, the harder it must be to justify the still film division, which is likely just staying afloat as it is.

    So, BUY FILM, from RETAILERS...and shoot it...and buy chemicals...and paper....and, you get the picture. The fundamental problem here is quite simply that demand is low. I cannot see it going anywhere but further down big picture-wise, so it is up to we little guys to buy buy buy to fill the gap left by professionals who have abandoned film.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2010
  17. marylandphoto

    marylandphoto Member

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    Hell of a time to have a recession, eh?
     
  18. JPD

    JPD Member

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    I will buy a couple of 5-packs Plus-X in 120 later this month. I still have Agfa APX 100, but those rolls can stay in the freezer this year.
     
  19. clayne

    clayne Member

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    Before we freak out, I'd throw out there that the market for b&w motion picture films is probably not that great these days. It's sad, because I appreciate black and white in all mediums - and of course I'm a user of 5231 as well. But every time something is discontinued people hop out to make a bunch of hyper-negative comments about how the sky is falling. I agree, it sucks, write them if you feel strongly about it.
     
  20. Matt5791

    Matt5791 Subscriber

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    Err, it's a completely different emulsion to stills Plus-X. It's not even the same speed, and the MP version is a reversal.

    I do not agree that stills is dependant on MP. Ilford, Foma, Efke and arguably Fuji have stills film production that is completely independant of MP either because they dont make MP at all or because MP (in the case of fuji) is not as significant as it is for Kodak who are the market leader worldwide in MP. And Agfa discontinued MP film long and continued to produce plenty of stills film and paper for years.
     
  21. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    I import most of my film from eBay (fresh film), their fresh stuff still has to bought from Fuji and Ilford, and some online overseas sites.

    I rarely buy anything from a retail shop in Australia, film is like $12-$25 per roll here, an utter massive rip-off.


    There'll still be Chinese made film around, which is my favourite b&w. (Shanghai, ERA) Perhaps Lucky might make their colour into 120, perhaps they might make colour positives again, who knows
     
  22. kraker

    kraker Subscriber

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    Surely you're not talking about movie film? If you are, please elaborate...
     
  23. clayne

    clayne Member

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    5231 is absolutely not an "entirely different" emulsion - and is a negative film.


    Do you realize what you're even saying? No, you don't want things to be reduced to cheap Chinese film.
     
  24. Metroman

    Metroman Member

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    Just to be clear:

    Eastman Plus-X Negative Film 5231 in 35mm - asa 64 Tungsten, 80 Daylight
    Eastman Plus-X Negative Film 7231 in 16mm - asa 64 Tungsten, 80 Daylight
    Eastman Plus-X Reversal Film 7265 in 16mm - asa 80 Tungsten, 100 Daylight (Reversal) 20 Tungsten, 80 Daylight (negative)

    I shoot mainly Double-X (5222) in my stills camera (200-800 asa) and have used 5231 between 80-200. I managed to grab 5 x 400ft cans of Plus-X yesterday from my supplier at £40 a can (old stock). Safe in the freezer now.

    5231 has quite a history originally introduced in 1941 as Plus-X Cine Panchromatic Film, 5231. Double-X (5222) was introduced in 1959.

    The two films have remained comparitively unchanged since. There have been improvements throughout the long production run of these two emulsions. In the late 90's there was a change in the emulsion hardener. In the early 2000's both emulsions were re-engineered and production moved into a state-of-the-art coating facility at Kodak. This resulted in greater improvements in the film's overall uniformity and batch consistency.

    I love using it and it can be cheaper than buying the usual bulk 35mm film.

    FilmoTec GmbH produce ORWO - in Germany - an MP film in 100 iso for 16mm & 35mm and a 400 iso in 16mm & 35mm but I have no idea what it is like - yet!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2010
  25. Ektagraphic

    Ektagraphic Member

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    I am also going to buy some Plus-X in still and probably super 8. I wish it was available in sheets!
     
  26. Terrence Brennan

    Terrence Brennan Member

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    Buy buy buy--bye-bye!

    Buy Kodak paper? Surely you jest!

    Seriously though, the relatively puny amount of of Kodak film and developer that consumers buy is simply going to hasten the inevitable.

    I switched to Ilford products several years ago, and purchase--almost exclusively--their film and paper. Bye-bye to Kodak products, because I can't count on those products to be there tomorrow.

    Ilford isn't trying to be everything to everybody, as Kodak is. And this is not a denunciation of Kodak, or to disparage their fine products; it is simply a hard evaluation of the facts, as I see them, concerning product supply from Kodak.

    Ilford has returned to their core business, namely B&W paper, film, chemicals and sundries, directly related to B&W photography, with a smattering of technical and scientific products. They ceased production of motion picture film, aerial film (did they ever even make aerial film?), as well as certain products manufactured by Kentmere, when they acquired Kentmere.

    For me, when I buy buy buy, it is Ilford products. Sorry, but for me, Kodak is a dead end street. Kindly don't bother giving me the "if-we-all-bought-Kodak-the-supply-would be-assured" baloney. The professional market, which was the lifeblood of Kodak, is gone, replaced by digital. Newspapers no longer buy mountains of Tri-X and 2475 Recording Film; catalogue houses no longer buy entire master rolls of Ektachrome for studio shoots. When aerial goes digital, when the motion picture industry converts to pure digital, when my dentist's office uses digital X-rays, that will probably be the end of silver halide products from Kodak.

    Perhaps some of their flagship products, like Tri-X, or some of their colour products will continue to be marketed. Who knows, they may even sub-contract the manufacturing to another company, depending on expected volumes, et cetera. PE, does that sound possible?

    One final note: like most people today, I rarely write paper cheques any more. Just about the only cheques we write are to our church, as presents to our grandkids, or odd purchases, such as when my wife pays for her Avon products. My bank manager told me that until relatively recently, all Canadian banks cleared their own cheques. Check volumes are now so low, that cheque clearing in Canada is done by a company, based in Montreal, which is co-owned by the seven largest Canadian banks. Does anybody think that world wide silver halide manufacturing might follow the same or a similar path?