Experience with Voigtlander Bessa-L and Jupiter-12 Anyone

Discussion in 'Rangefinder Forum' started by Raphael, Sep 12, 2006.

  1. Raphael

    Raphael Subscriber

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    Hello everyone,

    I have just received a Jupiter-12 Lens, in the aim to fit on my Voigtlander Bessa-L M39 box.

    But I am afraid that the objective rear protuding lens came in contact with the shutter !

    In the waiting of finding a secured method of measuring the size and the one and the other : Is anyone already tried this odd :smile: combinaison ?

    Best regards,

    Raphaël
     
  2. Gerald Koch

    Gerald Koch Member

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    The following site http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras says that this lens will contact the shutter on the Bessa R/R2. I would assume that it would also cause problems with the Bessa L since the bodies are very similar. This lens also causes problems with the Canon P and Leica M5, M6, M7, and CL cameras. I personally would not risk it.

    Beg, borrow, or buy a locking cable release. Set the shutter speed to B, trip the shutter and lock it open using the cable release. With the camera back open, screw on any lens you wish to check and note where it comes in relation to the shutter curtain guides. These are easily seen from the camera back when the shutter is open. Allow a mm or two for safety.

    Be aware that the Jupiter-12 may also block light from reaching the sensing diode on the Bessa and interfere with metering.

    See if you can find a Leica 35 mm Elmar. This lens works very well and I use one on my Bessa L all the time. The russians make a very nice 35 mm bright finder. Many of the collapsible 50 mm lenses also work.
     
  3. RobinP

    RobinP Member

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    Nice idea but it doesn't work!

    I tried a Jupiter on a Bessa L - screwed it onto the body very carefully but it can only be used at close distances, hits the shutter if you try to focus to infinity.
    The Russian/Ukrainian viewfinders are OK if you have nothing else but the recent Voigtlander or 50's/60's Zeiss finders are much nicer to use.

    Cheers, Robin
     
  4. Stephanie Brim

    Stephanie Brim Member

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    My J-12 works on my Canon P fine. I think, though, that the Bessa L won't really work. I could be wrong, though.
     
  5. Gerald Koch

    Gerald Koch Member

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    One would certainly expect them to be nice at 7 times the cost!
     
  6. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The Bessas have a "double shutter", which makes it a tiny little bit thicker than the minimum. Some lenses fit, like the collapsible Industar-22 and IN-50 (I've checked). It's been said that some do not.
     
  7. Raphael

    Raphael Subscriber

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    Hi,

    Thanks you for the information, Gerald and Robin,

    I had already thought about the B-pose and locking cable release, but there is currently a film in the Bessa :wink:

    With the crude mesure I done on the lens and the Bessa, I think too it will come in contact... So, no 35mm lens for me for the moment.

    I would like having a 35 mm Leica, but I am little scared about price ! :D

    I have tried the Jupiter-12 on my FED-2b, but curiously, the thread doesn't seem to engage. Maybe I missed something... I will check on Princelle's book, I believe some russian 39mm lens use differents thread steps.

    I currently use a Industar-61 on my Bessa, it's work fine ! Thanks for the information about the collapsible 50mm, justly, I have one (on a Mir).

    For the finder, I found a very clear VIOOH Leica finder (at reasonable price) a few years ago.

    Thanks again, best regards,

    Raphael
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2006
  8. RobinP

    RobinP Member

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    Industar-22 on Bessa ?

    The Industar 22 will certainly "fit" on a Bessa R but is not safe to completely collapse into the body. I fitted mine with a couple of rubber O rings to stop it hitting the outer shutter curtains but found it a fiddle to use and have just sold it on eBay.

    Cheers, Robin
     
  9. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Robin, the Industar-50 doesn't hit the shutter of the Bessa-T. It cannot. It stops on the "step" in the bottom of the camera, and even if it didn't it still wouldn't hit the shutter. I've tried, and measured.
     
  10. RobinP

    RobinP Member

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    Now as I remember maybe it did hit the "step" rather than the shutter but either way it did hit something and thus was not fully retractable so I fitted the O rings to make sure nothing was interfered with when it was pushed in.
    Thanks for the correction but I still believe the only really suitable collapsible lenses for Bessas are those made by Cosina.

    Cheers, Robin
     
  11. Gerald Koch

    Gerald Koch Member

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    Voigtlander makes an adapter which allows M42 lenses (standard Pentax/Practica mount) to fit on the Bessa. The adapter itself is fairly pricey but made attractive by the very large array of wide-angle lenses available for this mount.
     
  12. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    That's true Gerald, but the great thing about M39 wide-angle lenses is that they don't need to be retrofocus to accomodate a mirror behind the lens. The CV 21mm Color-Skopar I have on my Bessas (L and T) is one of the nicest lenses I've ever used - no M42 (or PK) lens I have ever tried comes close.

    My (new) Bessa-T now has a revolving FSU viewfinder to go with the 21, 50, 58, 90 and 135mm lenses I have. Maybe I'll swap to the 21mm CV viewfinder when I use that lens, that will depend on how much I use the others...
     
  13. Gerald Koch

    Gerald Koch Member

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    Granted, but for what you would pay for this one lens you can get a whole spectrum of M42 wide angle lenses including the Pentax Takumar 17mm f/4 fisheye.
     
  14. haris

    haris Guest

    I bought about 15 days ago Bessa R2A and Voigtlaender 35mm/f2 Color Skopar Pancake II lens (M Leica mount lens, that is you not need to buy adapter for Bessa R2A you have).

    I payed for lens 230EURO (about 282 USD). Lens is new, in original manufacturer box, etc.. one word, completely new. One note, because I imported it from Austria to my country I didn't payed VAT, so include VAT in price if you are buying from EU country...

    If that is price you can pay for 35mm lens, and I think it is good price, look at www.leicashop.at.

    If you are in USA, or prefer buying in USA, www.cameraquest.com is place to see. Price for same lens is 319USD.

    I am saying this because you said Leica 35mm is too expencive to you. CV lens is much cheaper and not that much worse (if worse at all in practical use - not looking MTF charts...) than Leica lens, and I belive CV 35mm lens with both seller I told you are affordable priced...

    And there is allways secondhand option...

    Good luck.
     
  15. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    $329 is money - at least compared to old M42 lenses - but the lens (and included finder) is worth it. It is the most I've ever paid for a lens, but it is also the lens I use most!

    $285 can get you the 28/3.5 Color Skopar. That's a $44 difference between wide and very very wide...
     
  16. Raphael

    Raphael Subscriber

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    I have already thought about such an adapter, but M39(lens) on M42 (camera) are a lot more frequent. But it is interesting, as I have a lot of M42 lens, and some will be nice on the Bessa-L, like the KMZ Zenitar 16mm, or the Carl Zeiss Jena 20 mm Flektogon.

    Due to the greater diameter of the rear of M42 lens, I presume that these lens are farer than usual from film with this adapter ? The minimal focusing distance will be lesser, but lens will not focus at infinity, isn't it ?
    But I will look at Ebay and Voigtlander resellers to see if I find one.

    Haris :
    Thanks for all the informations !
    But as I have a Bessa-L, I am afraid that I am tied to M39 screwmount lens.
    Maybe the lens you write about is M39 with an adapter ring to R-mount ?

    I have seen on CameraQuest website that they sell a 35mm Color Skopar Classic (with M39) for $209 ! If this lens is good, it is effectively affordable.

    Yes, it is, but I currently try to maintain my already heavy photographic expenses at a reasonable level, so I will search second hand equipement preferably. :smile:

    Thanks to all, regards,

    Raphael

    P.S : As I am relatively new here, just to be sure : is "CV" means something like "Cosina-Voigtlander" ?
     
  17. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Got it in one, Raphael! Spelling out "Cosina-Voigtländer" every time is too hard, especially if you insist on getting the "¨" over the "a" in "Voigtländer" right. :tongue:
     
  18. Gerald Koch

    Gerald Koch Member

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    Since the flange to film distance on the Bessa is less than that for M42 SLR's the adapter corrects for this allowing the M42 lens to focus at all distances.
     
  19. Raphael

    Raphael Subscriber

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    Yes, you are totally right, forget me, I miss the point, here :smile:

    Cameraquest seems to sell theses M42/M39 adapter, to the "nice" price of $149... So I think I will try to build my own with a lathe !
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2006
  20. David H. Bebbington

    David H. Bebbington Inactive

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    Try www.srbfilm.co.uk

    Adapter listed on page 7 of catalog as stock item for £19.75!

    Regards,

    David
     
  21. cruz611

    cruz611 Member

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    Actually I too read a lot about lack of coherence between J12 and canon P checked it sold my old silver Jupiter. Soon on several occasions I found canon P woth J12, the only difference was it was later, black version last week I tried black J12 on my canon P and it was ok. s/n suggested it was from early seventies.
     
  22. Raphael

    Raphael Subscriber

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    Tried the Industar-50

    Hello everyone,

    I have just tried to fit a collapsible Industar-50 on my Bessa-L, and, in the beginning it seems fine, excepted the dreadful facts that :
    - it cannot be fully screwed, because the rear of the distance lever came in contact with the body (there is a little screw, back of the lock button), and simply scratchs it.
    - it *must NOT* be collapsed, because the Industar locking bayonet come in contact with the Bessa baffling (not the shutter, thankfully).

    It's a pity, since this lens gives very nice results, with his original camera, which is a Mir Rangefinder (a Zorki avatar).

    Maybe this warning maybe useful to someone,


    Best regards,

    Raphael