Extreme grain on purpose.

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by locutus, Jun 11, 2009.

  1. locutus

    locutus Member

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    Hi, first post here!

    I'm fairly new to film, and i mostly shoot colour slide, and am slightly stepping into Black and White.

    I'm going to a music festival next week (Hellfest, a metal festival in clisson), and i'm planning to take some pictures of bands, i'd like to use a BW film for that which is Very Grainy for that purpose, i did think about the Ilford 3200 film, but with the concerts in daylight i cant imagine that be really usable, altough i could shoot *everything* at f/22 ofcourse.

    Would using a ISO 100 or such film and underexposing + 2 stop push processing work similiarly?

    I cant develop myself, and i'm not sure if the store i have develop my film does push processing.

    So, shoot!
     
  2. sanking

    sanking Restricted Access

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    Absolutely not. Exposing a ISO 100 film at +2 stops will change grain very little.

    Are you able to scan the film? If so, and if what you want is big grain, get the highest speed color film you can find, scan it and then choose the channel with the largest size grain. Depending on your scanner this will probably be the Red or Blue channel. After that, just add grain with the grain filter in Photoshop if the film does not give you enough.

    This is perhaps not an APUG solution, but I think it is a good solution for what you want to do.

    You might ask more details on the hybrid forum if interested.

    Sandy
     
  3. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser

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    in this next week, i would find a film you want to use, and do a ton of tests ..
    bracket exposures and shoot as many rolls as you can ... process it in
    a what used to be called a "universal" developer
    meaning it could be used for prints as well as film. ( like agfa 125, or kodak d72 )
    find a photo lab index or ask for dilutions, forumulas and starting points of development
    then process another roll in the same developer, in a different dilution and agitate your film
    a different way ( or don't agitate at all ). then do another roll
    and process it in the same developer, but another way .. make sure you have notes so you know
    what you did ...
    then you can stick your film in an enlarger or do whatever you
    want with it and examine how your grain looks.

    it isn't really an easy thing to just say use this film, expose your film a certain way
    and process it in a certain developer and you will get grain.
    what one person things is grainy, another might think is nothing much.
    not only that people process their film using different methods or agitation .. so
    what might work for one person might not work for another ..

    good luck, and have fun experimenting!
    john


    ps .. im not sure what kind of camera you are using, but you can also use a half frame or smaller
    frame camera and enlarge your negative - - more - - this will make your grain more apparent too..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2009
  4. mikebarger

    mikebarger Member

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    My grand daughter has a Barbie 110 that'll give you all the big grain you want, and some.

    Mike
     
  5. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Member

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    Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9000/4.6.0.167 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102 UP.Link/6.3.0.0.0)

    Make a matchbox 35mm pinhole camera and have so much grain you can bake bread. There's how to in the April issue of the magazine. It would certainly be an attention getter and a good conversation piece.

    And welcome to APUG.
     
  6. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    The Delta 3200 will work fine in any light. I love the way it looks when shot in strong daylight. Everything is frozen in motion and equally sharp, which looks very neat combined with the wash of grain over the whole picture. As an added benefit, it is a very flat film, so it handles the high-contrast light more easily than slower films. Remember that it is an ISO 1000 film. 3200 is just a usable EI for the film. This means that on a perfectly clear, nice and bright day, '1000 at f/16 or an equivalent exposure, such as '4000 at f/8. Also, do not fear overexposing this film if you want a slower shutter speed or less depth of field. It will handle it just fine, and it will actually increase the graininess.

    I shoot lots of concerts, and more depth of field and faster shutter speeds are the last things I would complain about with this sort of photo work. I would be glad to be able to shoot at '1000 or '2000 for a live show, but I am generally lucky if the light will allow '125 at f/1.2 at EI 8000.
     
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  7. locutus

    locutus Member

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    Hi!

    I'll be taking my Nikon F90 + 28-70 f/2.6 along, and i'll be shooting at a really busy festival, so while a homebrewn pinhole camera would be a nice idea, its not really doable (to fragile and such), also pinhole would have way to long exposure time for action shots :smile:

    What i did think about, was getting the Delta 3200 film, use a EI of 800, and then have it processed at ISO3200.

    Anyone tried doing that?

    Also, about developing yourself, i dont really have the materials for that yet, nor would i want to start off experimenting that much on these shots, and i'll be leaving next thuesday, so not to much experimentation time (and a busy weekend on top!).

    Thanks for the replies already!
     
  8. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    In general, minimum grain comes with the minimum exposure for adequate shadow detail. Overexposure yields more grain. Since you can't do your own processing, using a film like Tri-X and over exposing by a stop or two should give you good grain.
    That much exposure will be easy to accomplish in daylight, perhaps even hard to avoid.
    I'd think a lab that does B&W should be able to push if you want.

    If it's available for you a film like Ilford SFX (iso 200) will give you a grainy look without quite the speed of Tri-X. It will be much more grainy than something like Plus-X or FP4 (IMO).
     
  9. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Member

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    I would rather have it processed at EI800. Process it at 3200 and it could be grossly overexposed. The extra processing would enlarge the size of the grain and is, in fact, a popular means of acheiving exposure at EI800. You definitely have the right idea, I think.
     
  10. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    What that does is pretty much expose it at its true EI, then pushes the highlights and midtones in development. This can be good for flat cases in which you want the shadows to be fairly high in tone (darkish greys instead of black or near black), while also raising the relative tones of the brighter areas (i.e. contrast). I would not do it in contrasty light, though.
     
  11. Neal

    Neal Subscriber

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    Dear locutus,

    Either Delta 3200 or TMZ would be perfect for your application. It would be better if you could choose the developer but that is not possible. Use of a shorter lens that requires printing with a higher magnification will make the grain pop out more too.

    Neal Wydra
     
  12. Michael W

    Michael W Member

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    What happened to the Kodak 3200 film, has it been discontinued? That had big, harsh grain compared to Delta 3200.
     
  13. nocrop

    nocrop Member

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    Which f/1.2 lens do you use?
     
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  15. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    Hi,

    I use the Canon FD 55mm 1.2 S.S.C. and the Canon EF 50mm 1.2 L. The 55mm is the plain S.S.C., not the Aspheric. It is a great lens. Perfectly sharp even wide open. The biggest problem, which is only an issue in some cases, is the horrid barrel distortion. It is the worst I have ever seen from any normal lens. Thus, when I want to shoot straight lines near the edges of the frame, I use one of my 50mm 1.4s instead. I am looking into picking up a Pentax K 55mm 1.2 as well.
     
  16. nocrop

    nocrop Member

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    Very impressive. I really like my Nikkor 1.2, but your lenses sound like they're on a 'nother plane. Meanwhile the sky in Austin is green and I'm wondering if the tornadoes that have just been sighted nearby are coming along with the storm that's about to hit. Which lens works best in tornadic conditions?
     
  17. Roger Thoms

    Roger Thoms Subscriber

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    I've gotten nice grain with Kodak Tmax 3200 exposed at iso 3200 processed in D-76. Just checked B&H and they show it in stock. You could also use a neutral density filter if needed for bright sun.
    -Roger
     
  18. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    I'd suggest a periscope for those conditions.

    Your Nikkor 1.2 should be on a level with any of my lenses.
     
  19. darkosaric

    darkosaric Subscriber

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  20. locutus

    locutus Member

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  21. VaryaV

    VaryaV Member

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    Don't let the "norm" fool you. Several years ago I saw an add in a photo mag for shooting D3200 snow in bright sunlight. Yes, it's true. It blew me away. I liked the results and the grain so much I started using it for every type of light - and with beautiful results. It did take a lot of rolls before I felt like I "got it", but now I use it almost exclusively. Several apuggers have posted their prints of D3200 and they are very inspiring, indeed.

    Good luck with your endeavors.
     
  22. fschifano

    fschifano Member

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    Delta 3200 and TMZ both have very pronounced grain. Both are very good at doing what they do. They're very flat looking films with natural speeds in the 800 to 1000 range. Being flat, they can be pushed hard and still maintain a reasonable contrast index.

    But if you can't get either of these films, or if you find that they're too fast for your needs, maybe something like Tri-X will do. The secret there for getting grainy prints is simple. Frame your subjects loosely in the finder, then crop aggressively when you print. The extra magnification will emphasize the grain.

    Too easy
     
  23. Chazzy

    Chazzy Member

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    You took the words right out of my mouth. :smile:

    He could also sandwich a screen with the negative in printing. There are screens which are made for the purpose, but it would be easy enough to make one.
     
  24. clayne

    clayne Member

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    Wait.. overexposure yields more grain? I think you have it backwards.
     
  25. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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  26. Alan Johnson

    Alan Johnson Subscriber

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