Film and heat...

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Ara Ghajanian, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. Ara Ghajanian

    Ara Ghajanian Member

    Messages:
    368
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Location:
    Providence,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I ordered a bulk roll of APX100 from Adorama to be shipped by UPS. Of course the UPS driver leaves the package at my door without obtaining a signature. It just so happens that it is delivered on a 90 degree day. He delivered the package at 12 noon and left it in the shade next to my doorstep. I get home at 7pm and bring the package inside. Surprisingly, the film does not feel hot. I put it in the fridge.

    The question is: how would the heat affect this bulk roll?

    Back in the day, I used to work as a delivery driver for a pro photo shop. I drove a white van with no AC and no ventilation from Boston to Providence, RI (one hour without traffic) daily. I'd make deliveries along the way. There would be bricks of professional slide film in the back for at least 2 hours at a time. By the time I got to the shop in Providence the film would clearly not be cool any more. No one ever complained about film being fogged or otherwise. How is this any different than a BROWN UPS truck cooking in the sun all day long? I could order bulk film from a local shop, but that would arrive by UPS also. What are your thoughts?

    Ara
     
  2. joeyk49

    joeyk49 Member

    Messages:
    1,325
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Location:
    New Jersey,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have no idea about the chemistry involved, but alot depends on how it was packed.

    For instance, the airs stored in bubble wrap packaging canact as an insulator, as will styrofoam "peanuts". But for how long they will protect your film from excessive heat would only be a guess.

    I had inadvertantly left a couple of roll of film in a camera bag for my "other" photographic format, which remained in my car for several hours in an unshaded parking lot. I was suprized to find that the bag had afforded some degree of protection, as the film was relative cool, compared to the insode temp of the car. Needless to say that I no stash, film in the d*g*tal camera bag...
     
  3. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

    Messages:
    3,242
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Location:
    Milwaukee, W
    Shooter:
    35mm
    First of all A dark brown truck could be expected, w/o A/C to be hotter.

    Second, I very much doubt that it will make any difference whatsoever.
     
  4. noseoil

    noseoil Member

    Messages:
    2,898
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Location:
    Tucson
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Ara, the short reply is not to worry. You did the right thing to cool the film once you got back, but any changes which may have happened will probably not be visible throughout the roll. If you want to find out, do a roll and leave it in the trunk of the car in your camera. Shoot a few frames each day until it is done and then process as you normally would. Let us know what you find. I think the worst case would be a slight reduction in contrast.

    I'm hoping there isn't too much of a problem as I took J&C's sale ad for the 4th of July to heart and placed an order. It should arrive here this week and so far we've had 28 days of 100+ temps in Tucson (ugh) in a row. Today it may reach 112. Glad I didn't order anything E6 or I would be concerned. I have yet to see a problem in films I order in the summer, but I do hope they don't leave it out in the sun. tim
     
  5. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

    Messages:
    2,725
    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Location:
    Woonsocket,
    Shooter:
    35mm
    It's also my understanding that a few hours at ~90 degrees F won't ruin most films. A bigger concern is the general shipping time and conditions, particularly if the item spends several days in transit. If it's packed in, say, a UPS 18-wheeler, chances are it won't be air conditioned, and so will spend its entire transit time at quite high temperatures -- perhaps over 100 degrees F. For this reason, I've sometimes seen the advice to mail-order film in the winter rather than the summer whenever possible. That said, I'm not sure even a couple of days in a hot truck would really cause any serious problems. If you're concerned, order from someplace close (Adorama in NYC to Providence should be pretty quick) and/or spring for next-day delivery.
     
  6. Monophoto

    Monophoto Member

    Messages:
    1,691
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Location:
    Saratoga Spr
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Interesting question - one that it would be nice to get a really definitive, scientifically-based answer to.

    A couple of weeks ago my wife and I drove down to Virginia to visit relatives. Along the way, we stopped for a few hours to take the tour of Monticello (which I highly recommend). I had my 4x5 with me along with quite a bit of film, and I knew that the kind folks who run the tourist concession at Monticello were not about to let me in with either the tripod or the big pack - so it had to stay in the car. I cracked the windows, and found a parking spot that was quasi-shade, but even so the car was warm when we finished the tour. Fortunately, I cannot see any difference in the fog level in my film.

    Several years ago, I did a workshop with a well-known large format photographer who regularly left all of his film in his van. He wasn't at all concerned about heat and fog.

    On the other hand, I had an experience similar to Ara where the UPS guy left the shipment (from B&H - Adorama isn't the only retailer who use UPS) by the side door - on the blacktop driveway in the afternoon sun in June (hmm - three strikes?). In that instance, the film (T-max 400 bulk roll) had a distinct blue fog after processing. I know that coincidence does not make correlation - but I can't think of any other explanation for the fog.
     
  7. Ara Ghajanian

    Ara Ghajanian Member

    Messages:
    368
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Location:
    Providence,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'll just have to develop a bulk roll and compare it to a recent store bought roll I developed to see if the film base is another color as Monophoto said. I'm just glad that most of my front yard never sees any shade. That will be good for future deliveries. And as srs5694 said, I'll just have to stock up on film before the summer.:smile:

    Thanks for the answers kids,
    Ara
     
  8. JonPorter

    JonPorter Member

    Messages:
    63
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Location:
    San Francisc
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I've never had any problems with color or B&W film being delivered in hot weather. But I did learn the hard way that heat will melt lubricant in a lens onto internal elements before it affects film!
     
  9. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

    Messages:
    2,674
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Phoeinx Ariz
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It might depend on how hot is hot. Last year I bought some film from an On Line store, the UPS rout for my area is very late in the day. In Phoenix (like today 114 f) after all day in the truck the color film was fogged, the TX faired better.
     
  10. mark

    mark Member

    Messages:
    5,264
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    I would not worry about it especially if it did not feel hot to the touch. How many folks carry around a roll or two in the pockets? If it was color film that would be different. I know that slide film will do funky shifts if left in a hot trunk out of all packaging and just hanging in it's metal roll for a few days. The delta 100 that was right next to the velvia was just fine.
     
  11. Ronald Moravec

    Ronald Moravec Member

    Messages:
    1,239
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    Downers Grov
    You are worried about a few hours on the porch? Think how many were spent inside that big brwn box on wheels. I gotten deliveries that were hot to the touch as I signed for them.

    I would never order film except in late fall to early spring, spring being best as all the stuff delivered to the store in summer is sold before yours arrives at the store.

    But then I am paranoid.

    You may have deliveries made to the local UPS distribution center and held will call.
    Mine go the a local UPS Store. They take in merchandice, sign for it, and call me. You must make these arrangments with each individual store. All valuable shipment go to the UPS Store and never sit on my porch.