Film Developing Issues: Streaks

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Darkroom317, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. Darkroom317

    Darkroom317 Member

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    120N002247.jpg

    What is going on here? The dust and scratches I understand but the streaks I do not. I have had the issue with 35mm Tri-X and now that I have moved to shooting it in 120 the same thing is happening. But it cannot be just the film or the back that I used for Tri-Xm because I see the same streaks with FP4+ but to a far less extent. I used Rodinal 1:50 at 68F with 30 sec agitation and 10 sec every minute after that. The only thing that I can think of is that I used tap water instead of distilled water for the developer. Is this what the issue appears to be or is it something else?

    Kris
     
  2. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    I use Rodinal and tap water all the time. Streaks in sky areas usually(IME) are agitation related.Possibly you are not agitating forcefully enough to get fresh developer through the reel between the plies of film.
     
  3. cliveh

    cliveh Subscriber

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    This is nothing to do with tap water. Could it have something to do with the way you loaded the film in the spiral?
     
  4. Darkroom317

    Darkroom317 Member

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    A couple more examples

    120N002230.jpg

    120N002232.jpg
     
  5. cliveh

    cliveh Subscriber

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    Do you use a squeegee?
     
  6. DWThomas

    DWThomas Subscriber

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    Along the right side looks like bubbles/foam problems. You may need a little more developer in the tank and/or some bumping the tank on a hard surface a few times in the beginning to break up and dislodge air bubbles.

    Did you wipe or squeegee the film? The streaks look to me like they could be residue or damage from that process. A final rinse with a dilute wetting agent is preferred by many as opposed to wiping.
     
  7. Darkroom317

    Darkroom317 Member

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    I squeegee film my fingers as I always do for 120. I don't do it with 35mm because I've had issues with water spots. But up until now I have never had these issues with 120. Squeegee streaks as I have seen them are on the base of the film and can be wiped off. These see to be in the emulsion. Agitation seems likely but I used the same agitation as always. I do rap the tank on the counter and use the recommended amount of developer.

    I should mention that I recenlty swithched from Photo-Flo to the Edwal wetting agent. Photo-Flo sposts my 35mm film no matter what I do to it.
     
  8. jeffreyg

    jeffreyg Subscriber

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    As for the PhotFlo I have used it in distilled water for forty years with 35, 120 and 4x5 with no problems. I suspect you are using too much and not using a fresh mix each session. Just a few drops in 20 oz of distilled water is all you need for your 35 and 120. The streaks appear to be in the same position on the frames you show and you claim them to be on TX and HP4 so I wonder about them being from your fingers since it would be unlikely that you would place them in the same position and with the same pressure on different occasions.

    My suggestion would be to check your camera equipment to be sure it is clean and has no "burs". Also how do you load it on to the reels? You could make a test roll and cut the film (no reels) so you can tray develop and fix, then just rinse thoroughly with water. Don't squeegee. If no "burs" and no streaks then you have narrowed the problem to technique either loading on to the reels or squeegee. Too much PhotoFlo probably wouldn't cause the type of streaks you are showing.

    http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/
     
  9. Darkroom317

    Darkroom317 Member

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    I suppose. It is just a little odd to me to start having this problem when I have been doing things the same way for four years.
     
  10. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    Never squeegee film, period. Not with your fingers, not with anything. The last step should be soaking your film in distilled water with a bit of Photo-Flo or some sort of wetting agent for a minute or two before hanging to dry. Be careful not to use too much Photo-Flo... error on the short side when mixing.

    Make sure that your are using enough developer to cover the reels and make certain your reels are CLEAN. Photo-Flo inhibits development so if it is left on the reel it will cause problems. (I remove my film from the reels before it goes into any Photo-Flo or wetting agent.) Also, make sure you are loading properly. Are you using plastic or stainless reels?
     
  11. Darkroom317

    Darkroom317 Member

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    Plastic reels
     
  12. cliveh

    cliveh Subscriber

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    The last step could be distilled or deionized water, no Photo-Flo or wetting agent required.
     
  13. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    Clean the hell our of your reels. Really. Make sure they are COMPLETELY dry before you load them, always. Sacrifice an unexposed roll (or one of these damaged rolls) and practice loading them again. Make certain everything looks right. Use a flashlight and check to see the rolls are not touching. As mentioned, check for burs on your reels as well as your 35mm camera and your 120 back.

    It looks like you've got a couple issues going on here. Stop developing film from your trip. Photograph something you don't care about and get things worked out with that film before you start working on your important film again. This last part is the most important. Trust me. I've been there and I understand....
     
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  15. Darkroom317

    Darkroom317 Member

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    I have been washing the reels with every time after processing. Maybe not enough it seems.
     
  16. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    Keep the faith, man! You'll get it figured out. Just keep ruling out variables one at a time.
     
  17. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    I've been using Edwal LFN for a few decades, never any issues. I switched from photoflo because it was gumming my reels unless I scrubbed them after use. My formula is two drops LFN per liter distilled water, plus one capfull 91% isopropyl alcohol to speed drying. I also shake excess rinse from reel before hanging film to dry, no spotting or streaks ever.
     
  18. Darkroom317

    Darkroom317 Member

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    Now for the question that I hate to ask because I think I already know the answer. But is there anything that can be done a bout the marks after the fact or is it a done deal? I am talking about the streaks not the edges. I already know what that is from.
     
  19. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    I'm going to vote for your squeegee technique causing these streaks. It's way too consistent to be a development problem,or caused by the reels - issues with contamination from unwashed Photo-Flo would look more like the swirly bubbles on the edge of the roll than uniform vertical streaks running parallel to the long axis of the roll.
     
  20. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    You can try this
    http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5415120-Edwal-No-Scratch-1-oz.
    Some times, just some oils from your nose on a scratch(emulsion side) can hide it good enough for small prints.
     
  21. Darkroom317

    Darkroom317 Member

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    Thanks. I am using a diffusion enlarger head so I don't feel too terrible at the moment. These are the most affected. I remember last semester I had some scratched negatives. I printed them at school on a condenser enlarger. They looked awful. Later I printed them at home on my enlarger and most of the scratches didn't show up
     
  22. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    They do not look like streaks to me.

    If I look at it at the highest magnification the browser allows, I see individual particles. Some of it looks like drying marks with dried up components and some of it look like those dried up particles were dragged across the film. You say your location is a university. Can you take your film to a biology lab and look at it under 40x to 100x magnifications to see what those "streaks" actually are? If you have use a stereo microscope and illuminate it from above and/or through the film, you can probably tell exactly what happened.

    Once, I got something like that with my processing after few years of successful processing. What ended up happening was that what I thought was a diluted Photoflo wasn't.... So... don't forget to re-examine your process carefully.
     
  23. Vilk

    Vilk Member

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    finger-squeege, exactly what it looks like
     
  24. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Kris,

    Does the Edwal wetting agent instructions recommend to use your fingers to squeegee the film?

    I recommend shooting a roll at a time at home, and do the whole process exactly to the manufacturer's instructions, (except dev time of course, which is individual), including the wetting agent.

    I use Sprint wetting agent, and it actually recommends the use of a sponge to remove excess wetting agent, so it's designed to be used that way. In my darkroom there is also a bottle of Ilford wetting agent, and it recommends to just hang the film up after use.

    Do not process any more of your film from the trip until you have this problem under control.

    Lycka till.

    - Thomas
     
  25. silveror0

    silveror0 Member

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    Looks very much like scratches to me, so don't do any kind of squeege technique. Just hang to dry without wiping film. Also check reels closely for any firmly dried-on particles, scrub them off, then wash/dry reels thoroughly after each use. I've always used Photo-Flo at the recommended 1:200 without issues; however, many here suggest greater dilution. Always dilute using either filtered water or distilled water (preferable) in case your tap water has junk in it. Since the marks seem to be in the same place on different films, I would really suspect that one particular reel or the squeegee is doing the scratching.
     
  26. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    How could a reel cause parallel scratches spanning the width of the roll, running the length of every frame on the entire roll of film? No film reel out there makes that kind of contact with the film. The only processing equipment that would make that kind of marking is a roller transport machine, and he's developing his film in a Paterson tank. It's got to be squeegeeing technique. If it were the tank or the reel, it would either be confined to the edges, or appear on the outermost frames of the roll where they could make contact with the inside of the tank. Any other problems caused by dirty reels would appear as cloudy spots or random scratches caused when particulate breaks off and swirls around in the tank during agitation.