Film grain

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Chris Lee, Apr 7, 2004.

  1. Chris Lee

    Chris Lee Member

    Messages:
    49
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Location:
    Winchester,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I am trying to make a series of pictures with very prominent grain.I,m sure I have read a similar post here before, but I'll be dammed if I can find it now!
    So if you could indulge be again!

    So far the best results I have achieved have been using TMAX 3200 (35mm)developed in Ilford Multigrade paper dev mixed 1-20 for 9 mins. I was pleasantly suprised by the results! Large but very sharp grain, which looked fantastic in a 10x8 print.

    However I am sure there is a whole bunch of you out there that have a load more suggestions!
     
  2. veriwide

    veriwide Member

    Messages:
    117
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Location:
    Boone, NC
    Shooter:
    Med. Format Pan
    Develop in Rodinal 1:200 for a two hours, and you'll have all the grain you can shake a monopod at.
     
  3. Les McLean

    Les McLean Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,609
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Location:
    Northern Eng
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    TriX rated at 1600 ISO stand developed for 5 or 6 hours in ID11 or D76 diluted 1 to 40. You'll get very sharp grain.

    Ilford 3200 rated at 6400 developed in Rodinal 1 to 50 for 14 minutes.
     
  4. gma

    gma Member

    Messages:
    793
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Location:
    Texas
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I am glad to hear that someone using this site wants to accentuate grain for artistic purposes. I recommend Tri-X rated 800 or 1200 and developed in Dektol diluted as for paper development. You will need to experiment with times. Also a temperature range of 75-80 degrees F will help enlarge grain to some extent. Back in the '60s grain was trendy, but now that most people are accustomed to the T grain emulsions, they work hard to avoid any appearance of grain. If film did not have any grain you would not have a picture at all. I say you should embrace the technology you prefer and make the best artistic use of whichever type film you prefer. Amen!

    gma
     
  5. Chris Lee

    Chris Lee Member

    Messages:
    49
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Location:
    Winchester,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    OK Guys, I read veriwide's reply and thought he was taking the p**s, but now I have read Les's reply I am not so sure! But considering its past April 1ST I am willing the believe you.

    Surely having the film in the dev for that amount of time makes the emulsion very soft? Isn't there a good chance of washing some if not all of it away?

    GMA, as far as I am concerned grain is an inherent part of the materials we us, why not promote it?

    Does anyone know a way to simulate digital noise with film?



    only kidding!
     
  6. gma

    gma Member

    Messages:
    793
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Location:
    Texas
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Another thought. You can produce reticulation (a crackled emulsion) by using a hot developer ( 100 degrees F ) then dousing in a cold water bath before fixing. You will need to experiment with this tactic also. As I recall Tri-X can tolerate some real abuse without coming off the base. Some films will slide right off the base if you try this.

    gma
     
  7. bmac

    bmac Member

    Messages:
    2,156
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    My idea of prominent grain is Tri-X in Rodinal 1+25. Sharp defined grain, but not the blotchy grain on Tmax 3200.
     
  8. gma

    gma Member

    Messages:
    793
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Location:
    Texas
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    A correction on the reticulation process. All in total darkness of course. According to a Kodak manual: For Plus-X or Tri-X Use normal development time and temp in D 76, Acid stop bath at 140-150 degrees F for 1 min, Wash in cold water below 40 degrees F for 1 min. to crackle the emulsion. Then fix and wash normally. To emphasize the effect even more after the stop bath and cold dip immerse into 180-190 degree F water then into cold again before the fixer.

    gma
     
  9. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,284
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Location:
    Bergen, Norw
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Also underdeveloping and printing at a higher contrast - ideally with point source or condenser enlarger - will make the grain "grittier".

    The only time I've had visible grain on a contact print was when I developed in monobath process. Something about the thiosulfate dissolving and replating the grains, perhaps? But it's a chancy procedure that takes a lot of experimentation to find the optimum composition for each film / purpose.
     
  10. Francisco_Duarte

    Francisco_Duarte Member

    Messages:
    1
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Location:
    Lisbon area,
    Shooter:
    35mm
    HP5+ in Rodinal 1+50 /20ยบ for 17 min gived me nice grain. Fast visual identification of grain but not excessively prominent, IMO.