Film SLR Camera Lenses on the rise in Japan

Discussion in '35mm Cameras and Accessories' started by Thanasis, Jun 13, 2007.

  1. Thanasis

    Thanasis Member

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    On this website:

    http://www.photomarketing.com/dailynews/nl_main.asp?dt=6/11/2007

    i read the following article.

    You can find it down near the bottom of the page.


    Film SLR lenses shipments in Japan exceed numbers from last year

    A new trend in Japan is 35mm SLR users are continuing to buy lenses that are compact and have higher zooming ratio, says Photo Trade Express, a trade weekly.

    CIPA statistics show shipments of lenses for 35mm cameras are exceeding last year's shipments. DSLRs that are still limited in the number of models as well as total shipments may not logically support continued growth of lens shipment.

    "Those who own a 35mm SLR and those who recently bought a used SLR may be using their cameras with new lenses that offer improved features and quality," an exec of a lens maker speculates.

    Some specialty stores in Japan that handle both new and used SLRs say: "Not all of hobbyists are committed to digital. Recurrence to film is obviously taking place."

    From the manufacturer's viewpoint a Canon executive is quoted saying: "It would not be easy to let 35mm SLR lovers convert to digital. Shift of advanced amateurs from analog to digital is rather slow-going."

    Judging from information they get daily from consumers and from the statistics on lens sales, manufacturers probably realize many hobbyists are not quite satisfied with DSLRs and consistently think that only the film renders the colors to their liking, reports Photo Trade Express."
     
  2. pkrentz

    pkrentz Member

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    Sounds Good To Me!

    Hoorray for film! Pat:D
     
  3. photogolf

    photogolf Member

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    Yes, good news...
     
  4. copake_ham

    copake_ham Inactive

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    And didn't Canon - just a short year ago - cease all production of film cameras?

    Hey Canon :tongue:
     
  5. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

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    I think Canon is still making the Rebel and the end EOS, likewise Nikon continues to make the F6 and selling its low camera which I think is make by Cosina,. I hope that if there is demand both could add middle of the line cameras like the N 80 or 90, perhaps manufactured by a third party. I hope demands continues to increase so a range of film camera will be reintroduced.
     
  6. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

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    So it's taken less then 10 years for film to be the new retro thing? :wink:
     
  7. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Are we sure this shows a rise in film interest???

    Nikon 35mm slr lenses can be used on their D series too.

    Canon 35mm slr lenses can be used on their D series too.

    Before we break out the champaign we need to do more due dilligence.

    Sorry to p*ss on your parade. :sad:

    Steve
     
  8. sjperry

    sjperry Member

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    Maybe, but correct me if I am wrong, but film lenses are not optimum for digital (color balance is a little different, I believe). If you were a serious digital type I think you would want digital lenses. Therefore, I would think that the increase in film lenses and SLR's means an increase in film interest in Japan, probably amongst serious ametuers. Possibly this will spread to the rest of the West. Film does have advantages (not the least of which is better resolution, especially comparing LF or MF to digital), and people (like us) may have even tried digis and returned to film.

    Steve Perry
     
  9. copake_ham

    copake_ham Inactive

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    Also, as regards Nikon at least - the lens factor issue (1.5x's) makes most film-oriented zoom lenses unsuitable for their DSLRs because of consequent "effective" focal lengths. This is one reason why Nikon has two separate DiSLR lens lines (a "consumer" and a "pro") as well as the film-based lens lines.

    I still think Canon ceased production of film gear - but it could just be that Canon USA stopped importing them a year ago?
     
  10. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    Canon ceased DEVELOPMENT of new film-based cameras. They are continuing to make their entire current lineup of film-based cameras. They just won't make an EOS-1 VI or EOS-2 or whatever moniker they would have slapped on the next iteration.
     
  11. waynecrider

    waynecrider Member

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    If you have been reading any of the third party manufacture listings in B&H catalogs, or for that matter the listings for the big camera manufacturers, you'll soon see that there are, as far as I can remember, no new non "Digital" manual focus lenses being produced outside of Zeiss for the Nikon and Cosina for the Voight's. Especially lenses that are compact and having large zooming ratio's. So who's making these lenses and where are they. We are all on top of any change in the world of manual film photography equipment.
     
  12. elekm

    elekm Member

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    And the other reason, like Canon, has to do with economics. Build "consumer" quality with plastic lens elements, plastic helicals and looser quality control for the photographer who just wants good enough. And build a second line for pros and amateurs who want or need gear of higher optical quality and/or that will stand up to hard use and often abuse.
     
  13. copake_ham

    copake_ham Inactive

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    I agree. And another problem also arises because the "pro" zoom lenses (being made of real glass and metal etc.) are significantly heavier than the digi bodies! This makes for a rather unbalanced setup.

    I have a good friend who was always a manual focus (primes) Leica SLR guy (R7). However, for several reasons, including the onset of Parkinson's, after toying with a digiP&S he decided to get a DSLR.

    He opted for the Nikon D-200 and, being knowledgable about "glass", went with a the pro digi-only zoom (I think it's the 17-55mm/f2.8). Since he's not used to auto focus - he's struggling a bit with that learning curve. But also, the pro lens is "weighty" compared to the D-200 body and the balance b/w lens and body is considerably different from his Leica set up.

    I'm sure he'll work it out - but it is a lesson learned.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2007
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  15. firecracker

    firecracker Member

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    I didn't check the link, but it sounds like a VNR type of report to me. I don't know the sales figures, etc, but it would be better if there were another source of information about this.

    And speaking of Canon, sorry I have to go a bit off-topic, but I have to tell you that there's a big controversy over their poor treatment of their workers with low-wage and over-time, etc in their factory in Saitama prefecture. I think this factory is for at least making inkjet products. There's a young Japanese man who made a little video documentary on this, (I suppose, much like the way "Supersize Me" was made,) as he was actually working in there as a lab-rat kind of a witness. I don't have any link for this in English, but I don't think I'm the only one very concerned about it. As far as I know, Japan's socialist party has been doiing some investigation on this.

    So if you would go with the trend over here, it is likely that you might want to join the boycott of their products. But I use their older products, so I feel kind of disturbed by this actually.

    By the way, Toyota does that, too, believe or not. But in Toyota's case, it's by hiring foreign workers from 3rd-world country for 2-3 years on some special guest workers visa, having them work long hours, and paying them way below the minimum wage.

    EDIT: I just found the link about the documentary (in Japanese).

    http://www.magazine9.jp/karin/070606/070606.php

    The film is called something like "Drifted Temp Worker." He's a college graduate, couldn't find a full-time job that pays the bills, and he ended up with this one, which was to place the lids on the ink cartridges at Canon all day long...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2007
  16. mawz

    mawz Member

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    Actually, Nikon is still making a limited selection of AI-S lenses, and both Nikon and Canon sell non-AF lenses for their electronic mounts (Canon has the TS-E series and MP-E, Nikon has the 85 PC Micro).

    And of course there's still a large range of AF lenses available, including numerous super-zooms in the 28-200 and 28-300 range. One (the Canon 28-300 IS L) is even optically quite good. Note that the article was about FILM lenses, not manual focus lenses.
     
  17. John Curran

    John Curran Member

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  18. GeoffHill

    GeoffHill Member

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    I bought all my 'Film Lenses' For my DSLR (A Canon 400D) (5 of them, of which 3 of them are L series) I've only recently moved to film, initially because I could do so for very little cost, as all the high quality lenses were full frame.

    Most good DSLRs are totally wasted with cheap rubbish plastic 'digital' lenses, and need glass 'film' lenses.

    I've not used my DSLR for a while however, and I've been using my £20 ebay SLR body (A canon 300V) with HP5 Instead.
     
  19. paullgj

    paullgj Member

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    Prices of AI/AIS Nikon lenses increasing at KEH

    I've noticed prices of manual focus AI/AIS lenses are increasing at KEH. Having just said that, it would still cost me lots of $$$$$$ to have a digital SLR give equivalent quality to what I'm getting from my film Nikons, FE2 and F100. I bought a D70s with high hopes - lots and lots of time post-processing in Photoshop, it still could not come near what a simple slide scan from my FE2 could show in detail. Then it dawned on me - I'm using good fast prime lenses on the film Nikons. For reasons of perspective change and dust on the sensor, these just aren't practical on digital.

    So, spend another $1500 on a D200? If I did weddings, maybe. But I'm a fine art amateur - so I'm back to film now almost exclusively. And I'm quite happy with ISO 100 slide film and the fast primes. I'm guessing it would cost $5,000 (would need two fast zoom lenses) at a minimum to equal in digital what slides and scanning are doing.

    Maybe there are others that have come to the same conclusion.
     
  20. Lee Shively

    Lee Shively Member

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    "And the other reason, like Canon, has to do with economics. Build "consumer" quality with plastic lens elements, plastic helicals and looser quality control for the photographer who just wants good enough. And build a second line for pros and amateurs who want or need gear of higher optical quality and/or that will stand up to hard use and often abuse."

    Hold on there! Both Canon and Nikon build some of their pro lenses with plastic barrels and plastic innards as well. Some of the expensive L-series Canon lenses, and others as well, have plastic filter threads. Most of the non-pro prime Canon lenses are as good as any of the pro-level lenses but they don't have exotic glass elements so they aren't labelled or priced as L-series lenses.

    Plastic doesn't mean cheap anymore. I believe military and police weapons were built for hard use and abuse (and reliability). Many of them--if not most--are now built with plastic receivers, stocks and internal parts for more field reliability. I've gained a lot of respect for the use of plastics in recent years. Having owned two great Nikon F2 bodies in the past that were destroyed when dropped or hit hard enough to split the metal bodies, I know even a hockey puck can break.

    An excellent quality lens should produce excellent quality results with either digital or film. Some of the low end zooms sold as kit lenses for the bottom-of-the-line models are unlikely to do very good with either film or digital. As for using 35mm format lenses on APS format digitals, logic tells me the sweet spots in these lenses are being utilized--the center sections. So a 35mm format lens should perform even better on a reduced format digital camera.
     
  21. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Member

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  22. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    But it costs money to build a factory/machine to automate production to. For low volume production it might be cheaper to hand make something.
     
  23. Lee Shively

    Lee Shively Member

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    ...And I can appreciate the quality of hand-worked precision-made equipment (I own Leicas myself). But I also appreciate Canon and Nikon (as well as Glock and Walther) machine-built plastic parts.
     
  24. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Member

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    Dear Nick,

    Eminently true. Except that hand-lapping can't be mechanized, though Leica is doing research into how to mechanize it. (So is Zeiss, probably, but I forgot to ask them).

    Hand building also makes it a LOT easier to do 100% quality control, at every stage, instead of batch testing, and this is a significantly bigger factor in the price of top-flight equipment than the labour involved in building it.

    Also, the market for the best possible, at any price, has always been small. In one sense, a robot-built Ford is a better car than a hand-built Bristol or Ferrari, where a lot of the bits are selectively assembled or 'eased to fit' (not the engines, so much as the bodies). But which would you rather have?

    Cheers,

    Roger
     
  25. film_guy

    film_guy Member

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    I might be slow to understand the article, but can someone here explain how the writers of the article connect the sales of non-digital SLR lenses to a recurrance of film in Japan? As far as I know, Nikon and Canon's non-digital SLR lenses can be used for their digital counterparts.

    I'm all for a film comeback, but somehow the article doesn't make much sense in how the two things are connected.
     
  26. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    film_guy,

    See my post in this thread. We are still on the same page.

    Steve