Films underexposed incamera error +2

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by click flick, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. click flick

    click flick Member

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    Hi,

    Im a relatively a newbie film shooter and i do a bit of BW developing.

    Few weeks ago, i shot 3 rolls on an 4 hour walk without realising i had set the exposure compensation dial to +2 on the camera. ISO incamera is set to DX, and it read 100, 125, and 400 respectively as with the box speed of the respective films. The only bungle i did was not realising the +2 on which it was set. So in effect ive underexposed these films throughout the shoot.

    I shot two BW films, ERA 100, Ilford FP4 125, and a Fuji Superia 400 (c41). I am going to develop these BW films by pushing it for 13 mins in Ilfosol S, 4 mins of fixer and 3 mins of washtime. Do not have a stop bath. Is there any pointers or anything that any of you can recommend i do/do not for make sure i can salvage whatever i can from this batch of films.

    Any help would be appreciated. Ive looked up through almost* 6-10 pages of APUG to find this same issue, but can't find any, tahts why the request here. Im sorry if this is a redundant query that keeps coming up to you guys...Or if you can point me in the right direction, ill look it up.

    Thanks a bunch, again.

    Best,
     
  2. MartinP

    MartinP Member

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    When the exposure-compensation dial is set to +2 that means you will get a result with two stops extra exposure, not two stops less. Best to double-check that what you typed is what you meant!

    On the positive side, if you pull the b+w films a stop or so you might even find that you like the results. For the colour film, just let it go for normal processing - the latitude is such that 'reasonable' results come out of disposable cameras after all.
    :smile:
     
  3. click flick

    click flick Member

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    Thanks Martin,

    Yes, i think you might be right. So it is overexposed then? So should i be underdevelop it from the typical 6.5 mins for 100ASA.

    Its jus that ive never done this (developing +2 exposed films) before and the confusion of push/pull is slightly confusing for the likes of an amateur such as myself. This is not the first time, i assure you. Ive shot a Delta 3200 (with +2 on dial) and send it over to a professional developer who salvaged the roll by overdeveloping it with 16 mins in Agfa universal developer. Of course i didnt fully understand how that worked then...and i still dont now. Thats why ive come here to finally figure it out, and hopefully get over that hill.

    So its overexposed like you said, and just can you point out what needs to be done to salvage something,,,from these rolls. Overdevelop by how many mins, underdevelop? anything to look out for? Any thing specific i need to understand. Thanks again for replying.

    Best,



    (edited for sentence correction)
     
  4. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    I normally reduce development by about 20% for each stop over-exposed.

    It is very common to give one stop more exposure and a bit less development to improve shadow detail. Two stops is not so common but should be o.k. You might even prefer it!


    Steve.
     
  5. MartinP

    MartinP Member

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    Ilford give a recommendation for FP4+ at ISO50 in Ilfosol 1:14. That is a time of 7,5 minutes and is compared to 9,5 when using ISO125. Try that time and for the ERA100 roll use the same proportional difference (original time x 0.8) from your usual time for ERA. In this case, for Ilfosol, that would be 20% less than the box-speed time, as suggested by Steve Smith, above.

    Note that results from times under about six minutes can be less consistent, due to the twenty seconds (approximately) needed to both fill and empty the tank being a bigger fraction of the total time and therefore having relatively more effect on the total development that is going on. For this reason I suggested using the high dilution of ilfosol in place of the more usual 1:9, to keep the time long enough to be practical.
     
  6. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    It sounds right to me.

    You might treat it as if only 1 stop overexposed so only reduce development 20%. That will keep you from having too short development time and the uneven effects that can come with that.
     
  7. click flick

    click flick Member

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    Steve, Martin and Bill,

    im going to follow your suggested times and start off with the ERA roll first.

    8 mins in Ilfosol S 1:14
    4 mins of Rapid fixer
    and wash.

    Lets see how this goes. Will keep you all posted. Thank you.

    Edit
    Found this ERA development chart from the chinese co.
    http://www.chinastera.com/English/ERA1/English_product3.htm
     
  8. click flick

    click flick Member

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    Nope,

    I cut up the ERA 100 and dropped it into the tank with Ilfosol S 1:14 for 4:45 mins, followed by 4 mins in fixer and wash. Recommended times are 6-10 mins for normal exposure.
    Its like nothings ever been exposed on the roll. Clear neg strip.

    I still have the remaining roll in spool to wash. Any ideas suggestions?
     
  9. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    Do you have any edge markings on the film?


    Steve.
     
  10. click flick

    click flick Member

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    No Steve,

    None whatsoever. Edge markings u mean brand imprints etc? No. It does have some emulsion on the outer edges small streaks of emulsion still stickin to it. otherthan that its clear plastic.

    I jus developed another smaller strip from same roll for 3:15 mins...
    Temp had risen slightly to 22'C. Same result...lil foggy though.
     
  11. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    If there are no edge markings, frame numbers, etc then your film got fixed before developing.

    Assuming you are using 35mm, if you take a piece of leader and put in your developer it should turn black within 2 or 3 minutes or so.
    If it turns clear, you have your bottles mixed up.

    FWIW, a 3:15 developing time is a little short, I don't know what the recommended time for your particular dev/film combination is, but generally you'd like your developing time to be 5+ minutes. You achieve that by adjusting temperature and, if necessary, dilution.
    However, even at 3 minutes you should have some image if everything else was right.
     
  12. jm94

    jm94 Member

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    You might have accidentally fixed the film rather than developing it, I have only ever done this once and now have my bottles clearly labelled, plus a different colour top for each! (Black for dev, red for stop, white for fix), if you have fixed it first there won't be anything possible you can do to recover the images, do the strip test to ensure you have the right bottles, if your developer is old, it may have been 'oxidised' thus unusable and will not work, thus you need to test that, too. If it is old developer then no development took place and the film would have been fixed as if it had not been developed. Depending on your developer some do not keep if unused, i use collapsable bottles to squeeze all the air out of them... I highly recommend them! Rodinal is an example of a one-shot developer and once mixed has to be used within say, 24 hours of being mixed. Ilford ID11 can be mixed and used as stock solution 10 times (I find it works well and I only ever use stock) or diluted and used one-shot. It kept for a month in a sealed bottle with no ill effects but in open containers with air inside it lasted only a week. For CRUCIAL films I do advice fresh chemistry, i go out into nature and can wait ages for a shot, but if it is not a family event I am fine using ID11 or Perceptol etc etc with the stock solution, I find quality when enlarged to 8x10 does not degrade until used at least 8 or so times! Percepetol will do good in your situation actually, it will reduce the film speed by say half a stop with its recommended times, it is a fine grain developer. however you can pull process with any developer

    Hope this helps,
    Jacob
     
  13. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    By all means... Do that test... With just a tiny snip of the film... With the lights on... Drop it in the measuring cup of developer and watch the film turn black... If that doesn't happen then you know right away.
     
  14. click flick

    click flick Member

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    Im glad i came here asked the question, got your answers, tested a strip before going all out with the other rolls.

    I did put in the leader into the developer tank, it hasn't turned black nor has it turned transparent. Its the same dark grey. Im guessing it must be the developer that has expired. Its dark brown in colour now. Been 6-8 months since last use.

    bdial, NH isn't it :smile:? Now 3:15 was for the second strip since i was trying to pull this film (ERA 100) which was overexposed by +2. [-recommended film dev was a vague 6-10 mins]. I developed the earlier strip for 4:45 in the same developer.

    Jacob, I read your post with intent. I swear that would've been awful...and im guessing it is possible, but i think my chems are expired or not at its best to deliver. Im in Dubai which isn't exactly film friendly, Rodinal and other developers are hard to come by, but will try and approach this with a new bottle of ilfosol. Think i should change my fixer as well ?

    Thanks Bill, Jacob and bdial. Really helpful advice.
     
  15. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    I think you have found the problem!


    Steve.
     
  16. jm94

    jm94 Member

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    Yes, if the fixer is old, change that too. I would say, 10 rolls for fixer depending on concentration should be the max, however check the bottle and instructions. If the developer changes colour that much it is useless, if you are using old dev, always test! Even test fresh dev to ensure it is mixed up right, also, i will post this tip to anyone on here... loading a film to the reel is a *****! So when you rewind the film before taking it out of the camera (assuming you are working with 35mm), don't rewind it all the way, try and leave a bit of the leader poking out, cut off a tiny bit and test any dev you have mixed. Once that is done, cut off the flappy bit so it is all even, and feed that first inch or so bit onto the reel BEFORE turning the lights off and without pulling any more out. do not leave the flappy bit on as it will snag on the reel when you are loading it, Then you can start turning the reel halves and it starts off well. keep your scissors within reach, so you can cut off the end from the canister when you come to it, then wind that last inch onto the reel, then load into your dev tank. Saves several minutes of sweat and frustration!

    Do invest in them zoom bottles, if even a little bit of air is near the chemical, it reduces its lifespan considerably! For concentrates a squirt of butane, R134a (as seen in many gas dusters), or first calls capri sun like packs will help chemicals to keep.

    Wish you the best of luck :smile:

    Jacob