First E6 negatives no good

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by mrmekon, Nov 3, 2009.

  1. mrmekon

    mrmekon Member

    Messages:
    47
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I just developed some E6 negatives for the first time, and they came out horribly. Just about every variable is an unknown, but before I run more does anyone have any guesses?

    First of all, the variables: First time developing E6 (Arista Rapid E6 3-bath kit), first time shooting 4x5 (Fuji Provia 100F film), first time using camera (Polaroid 95, individual sheet loaded in a changing bag), first time using flash (flash bulb, GE #5), developed in Jobo CPE2, taped gently into a drum that doesn't support 4x5... could have moved.

    So, now that I look sufficiently stupid, the results: two extremely dark negatives that, when held up to the light, show a very faint red scene. Pure red, very dark. The frame markers on the film are yellow and look normal.

    Any clues as to how many things went wrong? Next batch is some rolls of 120 from a camera I actually know how to use in a drum that actually supports it, but I want to make sure this doesn't suggest bad chemicals.
     
  2. L Gebhardt

    L Gebhardt Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,769
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2003
    Location:
    NH
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Maybe you shot the film backwards. Are you sure the emulsion side was towards the lens?
     
  3. hrst

    hrst Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Location:
    Finland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yeah, the red-sensitive layer is on the bottom and there's an antihalation layer, so very dim red images with perfect yellow frame markers sounds like you have exposed it thru the film base.
     
  4. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,946
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I agree. Red transparencies usually mean the film was loaded upside down.

    When you load the film, in the vertical orientation, the emulsion side will be up when the notch is in the upper right or lower left hand corner. I usually load with the flap end down darkslide end up and the film notch in the lower left hand corner, so that if for some reason I lose track of what film is loaded (not likely, since I label the film holders, but anyway), I can feel the notches in the dark without having to unload the film completely.
     
  5. mrmekon

    mrmekon Member

    Messages:
    47
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Ok, excellent, that's very likely. As I was loading it I realized I didn't remember which way the notches were supposed to be. I'll give the 120 a go tonight then.

    Thanks!
     
  6. Leighgion

    Leighgion Member

    Messages:
    357
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Location:
    Orcas Island
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Definitely sounds like an accidental redscaling.
     
  7. fschifano

    fschifano Member

    Messages:
    3,216
    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Valley Strea
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It does sound like you loaded the sheets into the holders backwards. The notch codes are on the top right corner when the emulsion is facing you.
     
  8. gephoto

    gephoto Subscriber

    Messages:
    18
    Joined:
    May 10, 2006
    Location:
    Colorado
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I for one would like to hear how your 120 E-6 process run goes. In part because I am wanting to know how the Arista E-6 chemistry stacks up to Tetenal E-6. Does any one know how they compare? Anyway, good luck and do let us know. I appreciate that you are sharing a failure that we can all learn from!
     
  9. mrmekon

    mrmekon Member

    Messages:
    47
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I have nothing to compare the results to, but the colors on the two rolls of 120 look good. A lot of the slides are underexposed, but I didn't have a meter so that's not too shocking. The ones that are properly exposed are quite beautiful. I've never shot slides before, so the best I can offer is that the kit was inexpensive and extremely easy to work with. It does have a combined 'blix', which people around here tend to frown on.
     
  10. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,541
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Location:
    U.K.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You'll find that shooting 4x5 without a meter is a lot more expensive in wasted film and effort processing it in the long run than with one, you can buy good used meters second hand for a song and there are plenty of members on this site to advise you which ones are worth having. I know you're new to slide film but transparency films like Fuji Provia 100F processed in E6 chemistry make positives not negatives, and an important thing for you to be aware of is that with reversal slide films the more exposure you give the film the lighter it gets, which is the opposite of negative print films.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2009
  11. mrmekon

    mrmekon Member

    Messages:
    47
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Yep, I know the theory behind it, and how unforgiving slide film is. A meter is in my near future anyway, slides or otherwise.

    I just bought a 10-pack of 4x5 as an experiment to see if taping it into the pack of the Polaroid would even work, and slide film was available in smaller (and thus cheaper) packages than B&W.
     
  12. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,541
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Location:
    U.K.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Good 4x5 slides are stunning, but I would really recommend you refine you're technique with a smaller format first like 120.
     
  13. Peter de Groot

    Peter de Groot Member

    Messages:
    481
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    Maastricht
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Two questions: Does E6 work the same as c41? Meaning extreme precise temp control etc?
    Second question how did you tape a slide into a polaroid pack? I'm interested.

    (Sorry for dragging up an old thread)
     
  14. hrst

    hrst Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Location:
    Finland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes it works in the same way, BUT I wouldn't say "extreme precise" -- both C-41 and E6 work very well and easily at home if you are just normally careful.

    In fact, the official tolerances for E6 are not as tight as for C-41; you see, 30 seconds (15% of 3'15) in C-41 is one-stop push, while 2 minutes (30% of 6'30) in E6 is the same one-stop push. As you can see, it tolerates more. Same goes with temperatures. But on the other hand, with chromes you don't usually have the additional printing stage to correct things.

    So yes, if you can keep the water bath to +/- 0.2C, you will get about perfect results. However, even a bit more sloppy process, like +/- 0.4C, probably gives perfectly satisfactory results for most people. Most labs are not so good either..... There are "pro labs" and real pro labs.

    If you use the chemistry as one-shot and mix it carefully, there's no real problems.
     
  15. Peter de Groot

    Peter de Groot Member

    Messages:
    481
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    Maastricht
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Ok because I want to shoot some 4x5 fuij slides. Since it cost me 6 euro per sheet to have it develloped I might try to develop it myself and save a couple of euro's. I have recently bought a warming plate for chemicals so I should be fine then.