Fixing: Too Much Agitation?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by RattyMouse, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Subscriber

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    Is it possible to over agitate your film during mixing? I dont think so but want to make sure that I'm not missing something key.

    I like to error on the higher side of agitation for fixing if there is no down side.

    Thanks!
     
  2. OldBodyOldSoul

    OldBodyOldSoul Member

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    I think it's possible. I have never tried this but I believe that if you agitate in violent bursts of very short and quick jerks and do it during the whole fixing period that you will over agitate.

    On a serious note, I don't pay much attention to agitation during fixing. I do a bit in the beginning (say 20ish seconds, not more) and then here and there when the mood strikes me, and sometimes it doesn't strike me at all. Never seen any difference. I am pretty sure you are safe, so long as you are a sane person.
     
  3. clayne

    clayne Member

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    I agitate continuously for 5 minutes in 2 baths, admittedly overkill. Never had a problem. You'd probably have to agitate for an hour+ to see an issue.
     
  4. Pat Erson

    Pat Erson Member

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    Doesn't Kodak recommend constant agitation?
     
  5. hoffy

    hoffy Member

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    Doesn't Ilford recommend the same agitation scheme as when developing?
     
  6. Colin DeWolfe

    Colin DeWolfe Member

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    I prefer to irritate my film when it's in the fixer bath. I kinda stare at it and keep poking it and asking, "Are we done yet? Huh? Are we done yet?"
     
  7. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    When I was in college, I would constantly call the film in the drum my art professors name. One day she walked in and heard me doing this and asked what I was doing, "agitating the film" I replied.
     
  8. Colin DeWolfe

    Colin DeWolfe Member

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    Was her name Agatha?
     
  9. David Brown

    David Brown Subscriber

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    I don't know, let's look it up:

    Ilford: "then agitate, as during development, until fixation is complete,"

    http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629163442455.pdf (page 9)

    Kodak: "Agitate continuously for the first 30 seconds and at 30-second intervals after that with a hardening fixer"

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/edbwf/edbwf.pdf (page 5)


    Agitation similar to developing: Yes. Constant agitation: No.
     
  10. R.Gould

    R.Gould Member

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    I agitate in fix constantly for the first minute then just leave it alone for the remainder of the fixing time, normally a total of 3 minutes in rapid fixer diluted 1/5, so agitate for the first minute then leave it alone has worked fine for me for ever, following the suggestion from Johnsons of Hendon when I was a child, a firm now long gone
     
  11. Richard S. (rich815)

    Richard S. (rich815) Subscriber

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    I follow the direction on the bottle of TF-4 fixer I use: 30 sec of agitation every min. 4 minutes total for typical B&W films, 6 minutes for tmax/delta types.
     
  12. miha

    miha Member

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    There is absolutely no downside to it.
     
  13. Neal

    Neal Subscriber

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    Dear Rattymouse,

    Agitate all you want. Short of buying a paint shaker (and I'd be more worried about physically destroying the film than anything else), you can't agitate too much when fixing. The Jobo system agitates each process continuously and it works great.

    Neal Wydra
     
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  15. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    I once had an ancient darkroom instruction booklet which showed examples of processing faults... One was an image of "Over Fixation" which appeared about the same as an overexposed print.

    I always regarded that booklet with scorn, I always considered it to be misinformation. No other reference I could find described the same problem.

    Last time I looked for it, I couldn't find the booklet to point out its folly. I must have thrown it out.
     
  16. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    I turn my tank on its side and use continuous rotary agitation for each of the stop, fix and hypo clear parts of the process. Works for me.
     
  17. Pioneer

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    I use continuous rotary agitation for developing and fixing and it seems to work out just fine.
     
  18. Vaughn

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    When fixing TMax film I noticed that I got uneven, and locally incomplete, fixing when processing 120 film in the 'usual' way (1st minute than 10 sec every 30 sec). SS Tanks and reels. Near-constant agitation with fixer solved the problem. I say semi-constant because my arms get tired when each hand is holding a double 120-reel tank! Of course, agitation method, type of tank and reel, temp. and all that sort of stuff are variables to take into consideration. When developing two tanks at once, I space the agitation of the developer so that I only need to agitate one tank at a time -- I can give it all my attention and it is easier on my arms.

    I use Jobo Expert Drums for 5x7 and 8x10 -- so constant agitation there. The 11x14 negs are one at a time in large trays, constant agitation throughout the process.
     
  19. Pioneer

    Pioneer Member

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    I have found that both TMX100 and Efke 25 respond pretty well to constant agitation of fixer. Don't really know yet since I am just starting to use more AEU400, but I suspect I will find the same there as well.
     
  20. clayne

    clayne Member

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    As someone already know, T-grain films of course need twice the fixing as non T-grain to be on the safe side.
     
  21. StoneNYC

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    Actually I don't think I ever knew that... Hmm they would explain why the tmax is often pink but the rest of my films (non T grain) fix out fine... lol
     
  22. clayne

    clayne Member

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    It's also twice as hard on your fixer.
     
  23. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    But there's LESS fixer in t-grain emulsion, this seems so strange...
     
  24. miha

    miha Member

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    There's more iodine in t-grain emulson, it's hard on fixer.
     
  25. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Gotcha! Thanks.
     
  26. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    This is why I always use pieces of T-Max film (TMY-2) to do all my clip tests for clearing time.