flash for: c330f, mamiya 7, bessa r3a

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by timeUnit, Nov 14, 2005.

  1. timeUnit

    timeUnit Member

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    Hi!

    I've read all I can find on this, and checked out the Metz home page, but I don't get it... sorry.

    I would like to have one flash (or is it strobe) for my Mamiya c330f and for my Mamiya 7. If it can fit my Bessa R3A as well... that's just great, but not all important. I've read that Metz is good, but on their home page all they write about is the darned Eos 350D, D70s, D50 etc.

    It would be great if I could synch on the rear "curtain" at least with the Mamiya 7, or even better with all cameras... :smile:

    Is there a flash that fills these criteria (no pun intended)? If so, do I need a few adapters and special cords?

    Thanks a lot!
    *henning
     
  2. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    According to the Metz SCA module page they don't make a module for the Mamiya 7 so you'll have to use a sync cable. Assuming all your cameras can use a sync cable then something like a 45 would work with all the cameras. It won't give you any advance features other then auto mode on the flash. But then what flash features do these cameras support?
     
  3. Marco Gilardetti

    Marco Gilardetti Member

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    Now, I don't get it. If you're just looking for a flash that will synch with the shutter, any flash with a synch cable will work.

    As far as I know, the C330 doesn't even have an hotshoe, not even to mention other contacts for extra functions. Just a synch contact on the lens (or so does mine). Every flash with a normal synch cable will work.
     
  4. timeUnit

    timeUnit Member

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    Both the c330f and the mamiya 7 have a flash sync terminal. the 7 has a modern one, and the c330f has one that looks like a metal straw attached to a small metal disc. I guess those need different cables. None of the cameras support any special flash features, at least not according to the manual. But still it should be possible to manually set the flash to delay a few milliseconds before it fires, creating a manual "rear sync".

    My main goal is to use this with concert photography. Doing concert shots with like 1/2 sec shutter speeds, fast film, medium format square negs and flash would look awesome. Gritty and slick at the same time... Don't you agree? :smile:
     
  5. timeUnit

    timeUnit Member

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    Well... I'm very much a dummy when it comes to flash photography. I've used the Nikon system some years ago, but that is highly automated. If I wanted rear synch I just set it on the camera and the flash did the work. Everything came out great.

    I don't know what flashes that can be attached with a synch cable. :confused:

    If I want do delay the flash to get a rear synch look, is that possible at all? I mean manually?

    Which flashes can be set to use less than full power, to be used as fill flash?

    You see, I _really_ am a dummy here... :smile:

    Thankful for all help.
     
  6. bobfowler

    bobfowler Subscriber

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    You can't do "rear curtain sync" with leaf shuttered cameras. What you CAN do is rig up a small delay circuit to fire the flash "late" and shoot with slower shutter speeds.

    If you're looking for a flash with some "reach", I have a Metz 60 CT-1 available in the classifieds that would do the job nicely. The C330 doesn't use dedicated flashes, I'm not familiar with the Mamiya 7. The 60 CT-1 isn't a dedicated unit and will work with anything you can attach a sync cord. If the camera only has a hot shoe, a hot shoe to PC adapter works fine.
     
  7. Marco Gilardetti

    Marco Gilardetti Member

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    You can, as well, fire the flash manually while the shutter is open.

    If you want a suggestion, all (used) flash Metz 45 CT1 to 45 CT5 allow manual setting of intensity, have a handy flash "fire" button, and are useful to handheld a C330. I have the 45 CT5 and it's a bomb with the C330.
     
  8. Marco Gilardetti

    Marco Gilardetti Member

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    PS: the 60 CT1 suggested above is even more powerful.
     
  9. grahamp

    grahamp Subscriber

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    The Mamiya TLR lenses use standard PC cords. They can be a bit loose on the older post connectors, but a gentle crip sorts that out. Both the Mamiyas are leaf shutters, and X sync will be timed for when the shutter is fully open. The Bessa does have a focal plane shutter, but I can't comment on rear-sync capabilities. Mind you, that's only been around for 10 years or so, so a lot of photographers have managed without it :cool:
     
  10. timeUnit

    timeUnit Member

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    thanks for all these great replies!

    marco,
    good to hear that you are getting good results from your setup, that's reassuring!

    bob,
    a delay cicuit sounds cool. I have a friend who is quite the electromechanic, maybe he can help me out.

    graham,
    I know, I know... "rearing" is a new fashion, and of course one can cope without it. But I have not seen live music shots in MF lately, and never with that type of effect. It would be very nice to be able to capture that feeling of speed and energy, with nice grain _and_ the sharpness and detail of MF.
     
  11. grahamp

    grahamp Subscriber

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    It might be possible to have a mechanical leaf shutter modified to trigger the X sync on the blade closure. You would still be using moderate to slow speeds to get the blur-to-sharp effect. Off hand I can't think of many current medium format cameras with focal plane shutters, so that limits your off-the-shelf options.
     
  12. bobfowler

    bobfowler Subscriber

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    I used to have a small box that was designed for measuring the delay of M sync. It had a variable delay circuit which you adjusted until you had "proper" sync with an electonic flash connected. The position of the controls indicated the time of the actual delay at "M". It was a box sold by the old National Camera folks. It shouldn't be a big deal to make something like that with a fixed amount of delay...
     
  13. Marco Gilardetti

    Marco Gilardetti Member

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    But then, why you would want to have a synch on second curtain?

    In the case of a gig, I would better have the flash fired as the shutter releases, and THEN some extra exposure with leaves opened. This way, I'd capture the "hot" instant of the action, and next the blurry image will form as long as I want.

    With synch on second curtain, you'd never know what instant you will photograph as "sharp". Suppose you fire the shutter, and then the singer start to scratch his @$$ while your flash is lighted...
     
  14. timeUnit

    timeUnit Member

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    "...start to scratch his @$$ while your flash is lighted..."

    That would of course be hilarious! :smile:

    I just like the look of "rearing". You get all the blur and action, but still a sharp looking shot. Without rearing the sharpness can be lost in blur. Both ways have their advantage.
     
  15. Marco Gilardetti

    Marco Gilardetti Member

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    Okay, but seriously: why? Isn't a flash followed by 1sec exposure exactly the same of a 1 sec exposure followed by a flash, if we talk of exposure?

    Then okay, you'd capture in "sharp mode" two different instants of the action. But then again, having the flash fired exactly when you want it to "freeze" an important frame of the action, seems better to me.
     
  16. timeUnit

    timeUnit Member

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    Syncing the flash at the end instead of the beginning of the exposure creates different results. The exposure is of course the same, but if the flash is fired just before the shutter closes, movement is frozen "on top" of all the blur. If the flash fires at the opening of the shutter, the blur ends up "on top" of (or after) the frozen moment making the image look less sharp.

    Check out rear curtain sync at: http://www.vividlight.com/articles/3311.htm

    Also, one can guesstimate a musicians next move, and fire in advance. Say I use an exposure of 1/2 second. I can predict when the drummer, for instance, is going to hit that cymbal and fire the shutter about 1/2 sec in advance. I will then get all that motion, but after 1/2 seconds, the flash fires and freezes the action, and the shutter closes. :smile:

    I'm not saying either one is better, they're just different. And I like the rear or delayed sync better most of the time.