Floaters in replenished D-23

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by presspass, Sep 15, 2013.

  1. presspass

    presspass Member

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    I tried to replenish D-23 for the first time and ended up with a cloud of floaters in the stock solution. The replenisher stayed clear, but I got tired of filtering the stock only to have the floaters, small white particles, return. I used distilled water for both solutions and kept them in brown glass bottles; the darkroom stays 68 to 72 degrees F. Any suggestions? Thanks for your help.
     
  2. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    How does your film look after processing?

    I use Xtol replenished, and it eventually develops floaters too. Largely I think they are made up of deposits on the storage bottle's wall, and released when the liquid is agitated from pouring in and out of it. They do, in my case, not do any harm to the process.

    But that's Xtol and not D23. Sounds as though the particles appeared immediately. Is there an established D23 replenishment procedure? Do you replenish with straight developer, or is there a specific replenishing solution formulated?
     
  3. presspass

    presspass Member

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    I used to use Xtol replenished in a Kodak deep tank. But that was when I was doing 18-24 rolls of film a week. Now I just do 2 to 6, so I don't use the deep tanks anymore. As to D-23, there is a specific replenisher; unlike Xtol, the stock solution does not also serve as the replenisher. The floaters don't seem to harm the film, but I do filter them out before using the stock solution. There are so many of them, I have to clean the filter at least once to get 500 ml. filtered. That's a pain.
     
  4. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Interesting.

    If it's any help at all, and you don't mind using Xtol, I use it replenished and run maybe a roll a week on average, and it still works fine. I don't use deep tanks, just regular stainless cylinders with reels.

    My working solution is 2 liters, and I replenish 80ml per roll. I mixed the original batch about five years ago now, and I've never had any instability or failure, given that I replenish for one roll every two weeks if I don't process any in that period.
    In fact, I run a 1 liter working solution of Edwal 12 on the side too, and use the two in parallel. I can go weeks without doing anything to it, and it just keeps going strong (if stored properly).

    But if you like D23 I'm not trying to persuade you to relinquish it. I'm just saying that Xtol works for relatively low volume as well.
     
  5. snederhiser

    snederhiser Member

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    Hello;
    What do you use for developing, daylight or regular tanks? I use d-76 replenished, stored in a one gallon data bottle. This is kept full, adding the replenisher before dumping the used developer back in. If you are using tanks, make sure that you are using a floating lid to reduce the area prone to air oxidation. Remember that replenished developer can get pretty muddy looking. This does not hurt the film as long as the developer is still active. I use a pre-soak to help keep the developer cleaner. Just my two cents, Steven.
     
  6. presspass

    presspass Member

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    Steven,
    Thanks. I have used deep tanks with floating lids, but I now used daylight tanks, working from a 1 liter bottle of stock and another of replenisher. I put the replenisher in the stock bottle and then return the used developer, filling it to the top. I'm used to long-term muddy looking developer and I agree, it does not hurt. The problem I'm having is floating particles in the developer, starting with the first replenishment. I have filtered the entire bottle and they return. The dry chemicals are kept in sealed containers and I use distilled water to mix them. The bottles are brown glass.
     
  7. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Usually when people see a precipitate with high sulfite developers it is caused by calcium in hard water. Since you used distilled water that cannot be the source. Let me ask do you use a presoak using tap water?
     
  8. presspass

    presspass Member

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    Gerald,
    I don't use any presoak. There are some developers that call for it, but in the years I've been doing film, more than 45 now, I've never found it necessary. Could it be a bit of hard water left over from washing the bottles? If so, I may have to do a hot rinse with distilled rather than from the faucet, which is well water and pretty hard.
     
  9. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Since you don't use a presoak I am stumped. It was a long shot that some rinse water left in the tank was being added to the developer.
     
  10. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Is the distilled water actually distilled water? I've seen some bottles in the supermarkets that say they are distilled, but in fact they contained purified water from 'nobody knows where'.

    Is that a possibility?
     
  11. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    You might try adding a small amount of a calcium sequestering agent to the developer. Say 1 g of sodium hexametaphosphate (Calgon).
     
  12. presspass

    presspass Member

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    Thomas, I don't know if it's distilled or 'purified'. I have been using water from the same source for about 10 years and have not had this problem until I tried the replenishment route. BTW, I mixed a new batch of D-23 and a new batch of D-23/25 replenisher this week. I'll let you know if there's any difference.
    Gerald, If I get the floaters again, I'll try a little Calgon as you suggested.
    Thanks to all for your help.
     
  13. snederhiser

    snederhiser Member

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    Hello;
    This is entirely my thinking but just mixing up one liter could be the problem here. I always mix-up at least one gallon when doing replenished D-76. At six rolls a week over a six month period equals 150 rolls. Still an outstanding value, Steven.