Flying with film...effect of Delta 'bomber'?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Equipment' started by Vilk, Dec 28, 2009.

  1. Vilk

    Vilk Member

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    Flying with Film: New Rules?

    The recent case of in-flight pyrotechnics resulted in quite a mess at the Toronto airport (perhaps other airports, too):

    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/743292--carry-on-bags-all-but-banned?bn=1

    "U.S.-bound fliers will only be able to bring aboard the following: medical devices, small purses, cameras, laptop computers, canes, walkers, diaper bags, musical instruments and bags containing 'life-sustaining items.'"

    My film supplies have attracted attention in the past--what now? Does anyone have any intel as to where it's going or what the specific regulations are? (Please don't speculate--I'm worried as it is already. :wink:)

    They present it as a temporary measure, anyway. Fingers crossed.

    :cool:
     
  2. monodave

    monodave Member

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    Virgin Atlantic response

    I'm flying to US from UK in January for photo trip so this is of interest to me too. I would normally carry 150 to 200 rolls Ilford FP4 120 but will now buy a lot of this over there and have processed locally where possible.

    I have asked Virgin, Delta and US TSA (Transport Security) for advice on what to do and so far just received reply from Virgin:

    'From 26 December 2009 additional security measures have been put into place for all flights going to the US. This includes extra screening of passengers and hand baggage at the gate immediately before boarding.

    In order to minimise delays and congestion we are asking all passengers to arrive at the gate early. Hand baggage allowances for all passengers flying into all US airports has been reduced to only one item of hand baggage. This item should not exceed 23 x 36 x 56cm, (approx 9 x 14 x 22 inches) and 13lb/6kg in weight, and should only contain the items you need during the flight.

    In the light of above, you may carry film rolls as part of hand /hold baggage. However, it is advisable you inform the check in staff that you are carrying film rolls to avoid damage.'

    This isn't exactly definitive but implies they will allow film as hand luggage.
    Dave
     
  3. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

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    What would concern me more than the film, because I can buy that in the U.S, is a maximum of 13 lb hand baggage for my photo gear, I don't think they weigh the passengers yet, I'd wear my photovest, and stuff some equipment in the pockets.
     
  4. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

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    I agree. I like to travel with my whole plate gear. That would make traveling with more than one lens an issue. I can send my film and holders ahead of me.
     
  5. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    leave the film(if you're shooting 35mm or 120/220) in its factory-sealed packages(35mm in canisters, unboxed from 5-roll/individual boxes, but still in the factory canister. At least with 120, they(TSA) generally swab it, and if you tell the ticket counter that you need to have a hand search done, they've taken me in back to a room, and have swabbed each individual roll(this was last year, from LAX to Dallas/Ft. Worth AA flight). 120, take out of boxes(20 or 5 roll), put in gallon ziploc bags(clear), but leave in foil wrapper.

    so, it was less of a hassle, cause they checked ME there too, so I didn't have to wait in line at the x-ray machines :smile:. just a little fore-warning on their part, and arriving 1hr earlier saved me some headaches with the looney-bins I've encountered working the x-ray/body scanner machines....

    -Dan
     
  6. gr82bart

    gr82bart Subscriber

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    I fly in/out of YYZ and YTO to/from the US all the time - and I mean about 12 times a years at least. Each time I have always carried my big shiny yellow Hassey, at least 2 lenses, several rolls of film unpackaged in a clear plastic bag, and often a companion camera - anything from a Holga to a Pentax110 to a LOMO Fisheye - in my LowePro backpack. The routine in YYZ is that they pull always pull me aside, open my camera bag, swab and test, look around, ask me questions, look at my shiny Hassey move me along. Takes an extra 5 minutes. None of my liberties taken away or anything. Don't sweat it. Don't listen to nonsense posts that will surely be posted.

    Regards, Art.
     
  7. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Yes, but Art there are now new regulations for flights to the US, so all that went before is currently irrelevant, and will vary from country to country and even individual airports.

    Unfortunately people are suffering because the US Dept of Homeland Security systems just didn't work despite the fact the current problems emanate from an incident were the person was already on the International list of Terror suspects.

    Ian
     
  8. ajuk

    ajuk Member

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    I don't understand why my ticket costs the same and I am only allowed the same luggage allowance as somebody who weighs a lot more than me.
     
  9. gr82bart

    gr82bart Subscriber

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    I am unconcerned. Much ado about nothing. I may even tell you all about it from an airport lounge.

    Regards, Art.
     
  10. amuderick

    amuderick Member

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    my advice is

    1) good luck,
    2) ship ahead of you if possible or order things to be delivered to your hotel or you can mail things to any US Post Office "General Delivery" with your name. Then just show up at the post office for that zip code, show photo ID, and get your parcel. They will hold things for 30 days.
    3) leave things in factory boxes if going through security.

    Airport security likes to open *something* when they do a hand inspection and I would prefer it to be the factory box than the foil wrapper. Also, the false positive rate can be high on the sniffer machines. This is a problem when they are individually scanning 100 rolls of film. I had a problem with less than 10. When the alarm sounds, it is not fun...and they won't retest...it is against the rules (because of the corresponding false negative rate).

    Have a fun trip!
     
  11. Eric Rose

    Eric Rose Subscriber

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    The main problem is that the TSA et al are looking for bombs instead of bombers. All these searches are useless, especially when done by minimum wage grunts on a power trip. Get some well trained people in the waiting rooms looking for tell tale signs of stress etc. Once these suspects are identified, then take them to a screening room for a full search.

    Has the TSA even caught one bomb before boarding? I doubt it. Maybe they have hassled a few old folks who have forgotten to take their lighters out of their pockets. People have to get real, look at all the drugs that are smuggled in on scheduled flights. Most times it's the ground crew doing it and not the passengers. Has this been stemmed? Not in the least. So if there is still lots of powder on the streets, there is still lots of opportunity to put a bomb on an airplane.

    All the TSA/government is really doing is trying to fool the general public into thinking they are being proactive.

    Having been in the travel industry for a number of years I have seen first hand just what a joke this supposed security system is. It's the usual way governments like to deal with things, brute force and ignorance.
     
  12. PhotoJim

    PhotoJim Member

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    There is one obvious answer... choose destinations outside the US. These rules only apply to flights from foreign countries into the US, e.g. Canada-US, UK-US, etc. They do not apply to Canada-Canada, UK-UK, Canada-UK, etc.

    The world is big. There are a lot of airports to which to fly.

    The other answer is to wait. In a month things will likely have significantly settled down.

    I'm heading to San Diego in February. If this problem appears to be persisting, I expect that I'll ship my film to my hotel and either ship unprocessed or unexposed film home and pack any film I have time to get processed in my checked baggage. If the problem persists much beyond that, my planned June trip to Chicago and Denver may end up being a Canadian or European trip instead.
     
  13. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

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    After the bombing of Yemen the knee jerk will subside for a while. These wars against radical humans will be forever or until the end of man, I for one feel luck to have survived this long. It's a matter of how lucky you are and what you will be able to give up in the name of security, real or imagined. Keep your mind active when traveling, your best defense is personal vigilance. I was in the air traveling from LA to Seattle and just about over Portland at the very same time that DB Cooper was bailing out over the forest land. When we got to Seattle the place was a buzz with news of the hijacking.

    Back then you could go to the airport, get on a plane, take off, then pay the Stewardess, Flight Attendant, in cash with no ID and continue on your flight. How things have changed. It was a lot like getting on a city bus back then.

    The future will be quite different than even today, major restrictions are in order for human movement, it's not going to be a very easy or friendly World.
     
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  15. rthomas

    rthomas Member

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    Interestingly, this is almost exactly what Mr. AbdulMutallab did, if I understand the news reports correctly. He bought his ticket, $2800, with cash. He was able to check in without a passport. Of course he did this at the terminal, not on the plane, but still...

    I've only flown a little in the past few years but if film becomes very difficult to carry on a plane, maybe I'll just drive. :D
     
  16. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

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    Using logic like that and being smaller sure you'll win on airplanes (and other places) but just be ready for a situation where the same logic will be applied and you'll lose out - no complaining then huh :wink: :tongue:
     
  17. BetterSense

    BetterSense Member

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    I'm on a photo-trip right now planning on flying back on New Year's eve. I generally take my fresh film on my carry-on with me and bring my exposed film back the same way. I don't worry about the carry-on xray machine damaging my film and so far it hasn't. But with the recent Delta airlines 'crotch bomber' incident, I'm worried about TSA goons confiscating my film, telling me I can't take it, or fogging it during a 'search'. My camera equipment can be repurchased my my latent images can't. Should I Priority Mail my exposed film back?
     
  18. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Member

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    I would mail it back to myself.

    Isn't it interesting how millions of decent passengers now have to suffer even more because of an airline security screw-up? I undersand the guy got on the plane without a passport! It seems, we don't have to strengthen the security measures, we just need to apply them. Empowering the incompetent and punishing the innocent, nothing new there.
     
  19. Q.G.

    Q.G. Inactive

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    The way these things work is that they give rise to lots of rumours, blowing an already bad incident up to monstrous proportions.

    Part of those workings of terrorism is what we read above, someone saying that the guy didn't even had a passport.
    It was checked more than once, and he did. He also had a valid U.S. visum, allowing entry to the U.S.

    Don't help terrorism by spreading tall stories about how incredibly unsafe things are.
    And don't help authorities impose restrictions on us that serve no practical purpose other than imposing restrictions by doing the same.
     
  20. ajuk

    ajuk Member

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  21. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    The price of freedom is facing personal "risk"; for example, systemically the presumption of innocence means some bad people will get away so that I/we don't get put away by mistake. This means I face the risk of a bad person getting away and hurting me.

    The price of personal security is our freedom, how much are we willing to give up?

    For today the mail makes the most sense.
     
  22. Uncle Goose

    Uncle Goose Member

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    what we need to do is to throw all these ridiculous security measures overboard and start being normal people again instead of overly scared lemmings. Air plane bombings and hijacking is nothing new, it's just overblown by the media. Where there is a will there is a way, even for terrorists. Few days ago here in Belgium a mad man succeeded in just walking towards a plane on the airfield after he jumped the fence, just imagine what a well trained terrorist might achieve, airfields have become big in size meaning it's almost impossible to control all that space.
     
  23. Q.G.

    Q.G. Inactive

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    Indeed.

    I'm always reminded of the silliness we had here concerning the border the town i live in lies on, and the way they tried to defend both neighbouring nations against undesired elements from the other.
    We had three 'official' border crossings, then still guarded. You couldn't get past one without going through silly checks.
    In between these border crossings were (still are) wooded areas, with country lanes, roads, foot paths, etc.: plenty opportunity to cross the border either direction without being checked. They did patrol the border, yes. But it was easy enough to hide behind some trees, waiting for the patrol to drive of out of sight.

    That still is exemplary for all sorts of security checks. Much ado about nothing: for every check they invent, there are many ways of getting around it, and millions of things they 'still' don't check.
    What the incident now shows (again) is how futile these security measures mostly are. Or at the very least, how the inconvenience they cause is in no proportion to the good they might do.

    That sounds very cynical, when people's survival is concerned. But who are we kidding when we believe that these checks prevent people putting their lives at risk?
     
  24. Pinholemaster

    Pinholemaster Member

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    FedEx is also a preferred method of sending film back. Whatever you do, don't saw the film to your underwear. Grin.
     
  25. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    That sounds extremely painful :D

    Ian
     
  26. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

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    Even spelled correctly it sounds extremely uncomfortable!