For Accordion Bottle Users

Discussion in 'Product Availability' started by jamusu, Oct 28, 2009.

  1. jamusu

    jamusu Member

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    I am looking to purchase some accordion bottles to store my chemistry. For those of you who currently use them, where would be a good place to purchase them?

    Thank you,
    Jamusu.
     
  2. Existing Light

    Existing Light Member

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  3. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    I think I remember reading somewhere here that accordion bottles infiltrate air(even though they dont leak liquids). Like most on APUG, I recycle drink bottles in 1 and 2 litre sizes. i also use pint and quart isopropyl alcohol and peroxide(brown) bottles, i even reuse the gallon jugs my deionized water comes in. Storing the contents in a dark cabinet suffices in place of dark containers.

    Rick
     
  4. Denis K

    Denis K Member

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    If you asked 10 people here I’ll bet most of them would tell you to reconsider the use of accordion bottles. I could be wrong. It might make a good poll. I tried one one time, but now fall into the forget it camp.

    Air infiltration through plastic (or any barrier) is linearly proportional to the difference in pressure between the two sides of the barrier. Therefore, the best thing you can do is to fill a bottle to the brim and make sure it isn't capped under negative pressure. The accordion bottles I've looked at cause a significant negative pressure and the flexible plastic joints would eventually weaken and become suspect. Furthermore, the plastic they are made of isn't that great when it comes to being a good air infiltration barrier. PET plastic is much better. The PET material used in soda bottles is so flexible that squeezing out a little air probably doesn't result in much negative pressure. That, and the fact that they are made of PET, is undoubtedly the reason most people go that route. Soda bottle caps, however, aren't made out of PET and because of this some people use a layer of Saran Wrap under the cap. As a plastic, Saran is one of the best as far as air infiltration is concerned; right up there, or better than, PET.

    One thing people need to be careful of when reusing bottles is to pay particular attention to the bottle cap lining. Linings are designed based on the class of chemical to be stored in the bottle (i.e. different strokes for different folks). Most general purpose photographic bottles use some sort of high density plastic that is acceptable (but not necessarily optimal) for any application. When reusing a non-photographic bottle, make sure the lining of the cap is compatible with what you are using it for.


    Denis K
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2009
  5. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    As Denis said, reconsider. They are very hard to clean and not worth the trouble in my opinion. To start with, they are not very compressible. Since I don't like to mess with glass marbles or gas to minimize the air in the bottle, I do the following:

    For reusable chemicals (paper developer for example), I just make sure to top the bottle up with some water after pouring the chemical back into the bottle. For one-shot chemicals, I switch to a smaller container as soon as it is convenient. It helps to keep 5, 2, 1, 0.5 and 0.25l bottles around!
     
  6. Anon Ymous

    Anon Ymous Member

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    Don't bother

    I'm one of those who say "forget about them". Fizzy drink bottles are ok for me.
     
  7. mrred

    mrred Subscriber

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    I like them, so it must be wrong....

    I use them (Freestyle AP, 1 ltr) for my C41. I go through shooting peaks and valleys with this stuff, and my chems don't get used for 4-8 week stretches. These bottles work well at keeping the air out and being submirged in a warm watter bath (when time to get used). I've only had one falure and I'm pretty sure it was due to not using the stuff for 6 months.

    I notice no thinning of walls or air leaks. They work fine.

    The only other chems I use are WD2D+, Rodinal, HC110, Stop and FIX. These do not need anything special. I just use regular bottles.
     
  8. Denis K

    Denis K Member

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    I had forgotten that part Ralph. You are bringing back bad memories. I'm shuddering!

    Denis K
     
  9. BobNewYork

    BobNewYork Member

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    I've used them for years - but not for long periods. I'll put used paper developer and fixer in them that I know I'll use within a few days or up to a week. If I anticipate longer than a week or so I dump the chems; similarly, if it's much longer than a week when I get back to them I just dump them and re-mix a working strength batch. I've used the same Falcon ones for 25 years or so now and haven't had any issues. That said I don't use them for long-term storage.

    Bob H
     
  10. jamusu

    jamusu Member

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    Thank you all for the advice.

    Jamusu.
     
  11. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

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    My experience was expensive, when I lived in an apartment while going to college, I bought them and one leaked and covered the carpet, I had them in a cardboard box, my fault, but they can leak. I had some expand and they don't stand up very well and can fall over at the most inopportune times. For what it's worth, it's not worth it in my mind.

    The other storage system I've heard about was a man who used brown glass jugs and filled them with marbles until a couple of them got heavy and broke.

    Curt
     
  12. Ektagraphic

    Ektagraphic Member

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    Freestyle has Kalt bottles that work well.
     
  13. Denis R

    Denis R Member

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    perhaps the obvious

    your local photographic equipment dealer !!

    I bought one KALT 1g. expanding bottle, have yet to use it.....
     
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  15. alexmacphee

    alexmacphee Member

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  16. Existing Light

    Existing Light Member

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    That's why I use plastic. I'm clumsy, so it's more likely that i'll knock one off the counter than get it too full of marbles :smile:
     
  17. naugastyle

    naugastyle Member

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    I use them for XTOL (2 2L + a regular 1L bottle) and haven't had a problem yet, although I just finished my first batch of XTOL (just over 6 months)...don't know if it takes more time for these bottles to degrade?

    I haven't found the cleaning too difficult, I just fill with soapy water, shake vigorously, dump and repeat until there are no more bubbles.

    Oh, and I bought mine at Adorama.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2009
  18. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    How much can you compress the 1-liter bottle for? In other words, how much liquid fits into a compressed 1-liter bottle? In my case, it was still 60 or 70%. I do not see the point.
     
  19. mrred

    mrred Subscriber

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    It's a bit of a strech to base that reaction on that article. It defies my expriance. I keep my C41 alive for at least 6 months in these containers. I could go longer if I controlled the temp in that room (non ac).

    I am not going to deny a marginal amout of oxygen will get in, but not an amount that will serriously affect the task at hand. You will get more oxygen polution from opening up the bottle to use the contents. You would still have to do that with glass.
     
  20. naugastyle

    naugastyle Member

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    As I said, the 1L bottle is a REGULAR bottle.
     
  21. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    Yes, but how much does it hold compressed vs uncompressed?
     
  22. naugastyle

    naugastyle Member

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    I don't understand your question. How am I supposed to compress a non-accordion bottle?
     
  23. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    I thought you're talking about a regular accordion bottle. My mistake.

    All I wanted to know, what the volume difference is between compressing and not compressing your accordion bottles. When I did that with mine, the difference was surprisingly small. I think their functionality is overstated.
     
  24. Philippe-Georges

    Philippe-Georges Member

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    I use the brown bottles I get for free from my pharmacist in witch the homeopathic tinctures are coming. As these products are no chemicals, not hazardous nor reactive, and can easy be diluted in water, these bottles are clean just by rinsing a little with hot water. I get then in 0,5 l, 1 l, 2,5 l and the large ones have wide necks.
    To stop the developer oxidising by the air, I blow a little CFC free KENAIR air duster in the bottle just before closing it.

    Philippe
     
  25. BobNewYork

    BobNewYork Member

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    My gut tells me that accordion bottles are neither as good as the manufacturers would claim - nor as bad as their detractors would have us believe. I suspect that a 'squeezed" accordion bottle is more effective for a month or so than a partially full rigid container. They have their place but are not a panacea. It's clear from some of the posts here that some find them effective for up to six months. Personally I don't store stock or working strength solutions that long - but for a week or two I've found them very effective. This morning I was about to throw out some partially used print fixer stored in an accordion bottle for the past 10 days. Purely in light of this thread I tossed in a piece of old, unexposed Tri-X to check the clearing time - it was 1m 45 sec, which is about the same clearing time as fresh fixer for me. (I then tossed it!) To make this a true test, of course, I should try this with fresh fixer in accordion bottles and in full plastic bottles and in full and partially full glass bottles and then repeat with used fixer. But that's just not going to happen! The accordion bottles work for me and for the uses to which I put them.

    Bob H
     
  26. fotch

    fotch Member

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    Used them for years. I would compress them to the point that the fluid would reach the top and slightly overflow and then I closed the cap. Never had a problem with air getting in and could keep developer for 3 or 4 months. Maybe longer but I would dump and mix fresh. As long as you have fluid in them I think rinsing is all you need to clean and I would always refill with the same developer. Never used for fix or anything else.

    When in use, they will not stand straight but its not a problem. No longer use as I think amber glass is best and use 250ml filled to the brim and use one shot. Safer and superior than using plastic food bottles IMHO. I think in trying to keep c41 this is especially important.