For the old timers, mostly. Long.

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by sun of sand, May 16, 2008.

  1. sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

    Feb 8, 2007
    4x5 Format
    Just moved couple weeks ago into an old Victorian
    -which needs something on everything fixed-
    and finally got phone and internet connection
    -RoadRunner which is a hell of a lot faster than my old dialed connection- and now have some questions to ask regarding some chemicals and developers and things I bought a few weeks ago

    These are old. Most are probably from the 70's but some things go back to the 50's and perhaps even older.

    Edwal 111 -1950- -chlorhydroquinone in this one. Works. Tried 2 prints after mixing up.
    Von'L Gold XX ultra speed -EI enhancing film developer. Have not tried. Gotta be from the 50's or earlier.
    Ansco 103/125/135 paper developers
    103 is cold-tone/125 is D72/135 is warmest=tone and probably glycin-based.
    Ardol paper developer = Ansco 135
    Defender and Dupont D-55 -it says "Standard" paper developer (for velour black etc) but I believe is much warmer and more suited for portraits than "Standard" would make you believe. I know this is a loved developer but wondering if there were any appreciable formula differences from switch to Dupont from Defender? Bromide levels etc..
    Universal MQ developer. Wondering if can add something to this to give a different look or if should just try it out as-is?
    Dupont Litho 21D developer
    I have an old Dupont catalog from late 50's but no 21D in the Litho section of formulas. 2 solution developer. No idea if contains formaldehyde or Sulfuric Acid. 15D litho is a 2 solution Hydroquinone and sulfuric.
    I tried one print after mixing some up
    1:5:2 old brown
    and this stuff seems to give very! good color on RC paper. I didn't compare it to Kodalith but I believe this Dupont formula may actually be better for lith printing.

    Edwal Thermofine. Fine grain developer.

    Kodak Tanning developer. I only have part A of the two part solution. Comes in little packets like the MQ developer. I wonder if this is a pyro/catechol and whether anyone knows what is likely to be in Solution A. I figure the developers. Any ideas how to go about using it given it still being good?

    I tried a few prints with the toners as they're easy to check and they "all" work. No idea if capacity will be lessened, though.

    Flemish toner. Bottles have crystals on the bottom. Can I heat the toner to dissolve the crystals or should I just go with it since it seems to be fine in use?
    Brown toner. Some gunk lining the bottle but works fine. I like the tones with Flemish and Brown mixed.
    Poly-Toner. works fine. A little pinkish but this was a very dilute solution.
    Sepia redeveloper. Have not tried this toner as didn't have any more bleach.
    Any ideas? Can color processing bleach be used? Some are ferricyanide based? I believe this is from E4 processing but not sure.
    Sodium sulphide. Only really used in making sepia toners?

    Kodak Print flattening solution. FLattening solutions from other brands. haven't tried.

    Nepera solution. "Velox" solution. Works. Anything good about this stuff?

    Dry/Pure Chemicals

    Glycin. Athenon. Brown/light tan. I figured trash but mixed up a very retarded solution and it developed the image once I got dilution in the ballpark. May be usable for prints.
    Amidol. Acrol. Same color as the glycin. Picked this up not knowing what it was. Made a retarded developer using hypo clearing agent and water + orthazite and developed the image well enough to make me believe it may still be fine once get a proper recipe going.
    Paraphenylene Diamine. Base. I guess a fine-grain/very low contrast developing agent mostly used in conjuction with other developer..Glycin.
    Only for film? Any use in paper developers?
    Edwal Orthomine. Orthophenylene Diamine. Not sure what the difference is other than the ortho part. What is it's use?

    Boric Acid
    Sodium metaborate //Kodalk? Balanced Alkali?
    Pot. carbonate. How interchangeable with Sodium carbonate? what is the ratio/correction if using it over sodium carbonate.

    Anti-cal. Prevents sludging from hard water. What is the chemical? Lime?
    Edwal Thermo-Salt. For use in developers to be used at higher than recommended temperatures. What is the chemical? I think I read in a book the chemical often used was Sodium Sulphate?
    Ferric Alum. Seems to be of little use to me.
    Citric Acid. preservative
    Hypo Clear to make 25! gallons LOL

    What is in Kodak Hypo Clear? Almost entirely Sodium Sulfite? Can you actually use it to make developers or too much extra miniscule amounts of other chems?

    That's most of it, I guess.

    Sodium hydroxide. Worth to get a large bottle or better just to find Lye?
    Potassium hydroxide. Whats the difference?
    Kodak Formaldehyde Solution. paraformaldehyde? I know can be dangerous but is it useful at times to have in the darkroom?
    Lactic Acid
    I believe I saw Quinol? A little box/tube or something. Hydroquinone?

    Film Developers

    Old FR developers. Anyone remember these formulas/this manufacturer?
    "FR" X-22 and some others. Maybe some "FX" developers? I don't know. Efke?

    Old liquid developers for use with Flashbulb lighting. "Guaranteed not to blow highlights" etc
    Would these be D23 equals? Worth to try it out in extreme lighting situations?

    E4/E3 E whatever process kits. Any chemicals in the kits useful for todays emulsions? I wouldn't mind trying some color developing.

    ANy ideas/hints/ suggestions would be great! seriously. I could use some input.
    I believe/am willing to bet that everything is still "good"

    If you have concerns for toxicity or whatever you can add those, too. I won't use anything till I know what it is/how to use it/how to dispose of properly.

  2. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

    Nov 21, 2004
    Multi Format
    If nothing else, you have a bit of history there. Try everything, if not for film, then for paper. Get copies of Anchell/Troop 'Film Dev. Cookbook" and "Darkroom Cookbook" to see what you can mix up.
  3. Anscojohn

    Anscojohn Subscriber

    Dec 31, 2006
    Medium Format
    The Amidol alone is worth a lot of $$. The X-22 in those cute little bottles is kinda neat. You're right, it would be great with EFKE 25, just like it was with Adox KB-14. I loved Flemish toner--it's selenium based.
  4. gordrob

    gordrob Subscriber

    Jan 29, 2005
    Western Cana
    Multi Format
    The Kodak Tanning A developer was used in the development of matrix film for the Dye Transfer Process- discontinued in the early 1990s. I don't know of any other use for it but if the packet is starting to turn brown it is deteriorating. It is a pyro developer. More information can be obtained on the Dye Transfer Forum on Yahoo.

  5. OP
    sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

    Feb 8, 2007
    4x5 Format
    I picked up the amidol with no clue. I'll have enough to last a while given it still works.
    ALmost got some rodinal or the actual developer rodinal "Kodelon"
    Thought it was metol since the "elon" but nope.
    X-22 I picked up 6 packs of 3 or 18 bottles. Havent learned enough about it yet. About 20 packs remain.
    I do like the flemish toner. Not a redevelopment toner. Went so long without selenium -always put stuff off like that-
    The tanning developer Pyro is in a separate B packet FAIK so maybe is worth a shot one day. I think 6g per packet.
    Glycin seems to work. To some degree. Glycin only developer -perhaps weak on carbonate- developed exposed paper in about 2x the time Dektol did. Does develop an image by itself. Put tiny bit of Dektol in -1/10 of volume- to make a weak 130 developer and got full development in 15-20 min. so it seems it may work fine. Gotta be 40 years old glycin. Light brown.
    Edwal Super 12 in super duper brown bottles. $7.70 price tag.
    FR electronic flash developer. Maybe this is same as Edwal 12?
    Edwal negative developer in same-looking bottle as the Super 12.
    THink one called Fx-44
    Cases of those bottle developers left. I think all fine-grain.
    55-D 15 gallons
    135/Ardol 7 gallons
    103 cold-tone 10-40 gallons
    Ton of Bleach for redevelopment toners /reducing
    Defender 57-D made for recording/copying machines. BB compound inside lol.
    Isodol portrait developer which seems like DK-50 + a bit of contrast.
    Hyfinol much like D76, I guess. Maybe better for plus-X
    Dk-20/Replensiher higher contrast, finer grain D-76.
    One package left of what may be Promicrol. Didn't pick it up.
    Edwal Micrograin 85
    Ektonal. Should pick more of this up, it seems
    Anti-Cal 1lb. Tons left. Not sure which #'s
    defoamer 1pint
    Kodak Highlight Stain Remover liquid. 4oz bottles
    Mallinckrodt SOFTONE low contrast film developer? Anything? lots
    21-D Litho ..not same thing as Sease #3
    Dk60a Deep tank. Any ideas
    process P-122 Buffer. I just took the crap. Anything?
    Microdol-X the early version in cans +replenisher. Tons

    10gal jar Pot. Alum.
    " " Ammonium chloride
    " thiocyanate.
    1lb paraformaldehyde
    10gal stay flat
    1/2gal BFi print flattening solution
    1/2 gal Pakostat to reduce static in prints

    I think this stuff is for Dye-Transfer so I'll put it in ..lots if anyone wants?
    4 oz Matrix highlight mask?
    Black dye relief etching? -I think in demand/quite rare
    1gal photo resist developer? ...these items come in alum. cans like a paint thinner sometimes would
    wash-off whatevers

    Process p-122 kits
    Ektachrome kits E-1 or E-2 whatever
    Maybe even K-type kits K14? I don't know

    yard sale prices.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2008
  6. OP
    sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

    Feb 8, 2007
    4x5 Format
    I'm not looking to sell stuff/make money, really. Just wondering if anyone is interested in the stuff.

    I really would like info on a lot of this stuff if you have it to give. I do research of my own but some of it is like finding needles
    Where to find info on Crawley FX FR developers?
  7. OP
    sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

    Feb 8, 2007
    4x5 Format

    One day I will. I always put that stuff off. Near future.
  8. Wayne

    Wayne Subscriber

    Jul 8, 2005
    Large Format
    Brown glycin may work, but not like it should, and it may be hard or impossible to prevent staining. I wouldnt bother with it. As for disposal, its alwats the same-call your local city/county haz waste disposal or solid waste dept.

  9. OP
    sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

    Feb 8, 2007
    4x5 Format
    I know it may be a waste of time but it's the learning that is most valuable, I think. The lb or 2 of glycin I have cost me little.
    What type of staining? How would you try to prevent it? How would glycin work if not the way it should?
    This is the type of stuff I'm interested in learning about ..knowledge that can be used down the line and with other chemicals/developers/etc

    The print I did was of a very dense negative that allowed me to flip the light on for 1/15 second onto RC enlarging paper -no effort made to get a correct exposure- and the print came out OK ..though have nothing to compare to. I did get some dichroic fog, I think. coppery spots. No staining that I see. I used hard water at high temp.

    I know I can take the stuff to disposal sites but I don't know what they do with it. I'd like to know that, too.
  10. Alan Johnson

    Alan Johnson Subscriber

    Nov 16, 2004
    I believe Crawley's FX developers have no connection to FR developers.I have a book 'Good Photography's Darkroom Ideas' by Simon Nathan from about 1962.It notes:
    "American chemists also have some excellent one shot developers. FR leads with X-22 for slow films,X-44 for fast films."
    "X-44 is basically a fine grain developer for high and medium speed films.For optimum results,where high resolution is a factor,with thin emulsion films,use FR X-22 One Shot Compensating Developer."
    FR appears to be the manufacturer and X-22 reads like a Beutler type IMO.
  11. OP
    sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

    Feb 8, 2007
    4x5 Format
    It says First Rate on the side of the bottles so I figure FR means First Rate corporation
    I cannot find info on those developers. Confuses the hell out of me. They're all FR x-something
    have to find booklets
  12. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Sep 7, 2002
    Willamette V
    Medium Format
    If I had such a multitude of chemistry unloaded upon my door step
    I'd perhaps categorize according to it's usage. Of two major divisions
    one might be Ready To Use and a second might be Components. With
    in those major divisions further categorize by function. Dan
  13. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

    Mar 7, 2004
    Southern Cal
    Multi Format
    Kodelon is (p-aminophenol oxalate)

    You can substitute p-aminophenol BASE for Kodelon (I've done it successfully).


    Kodak HCA was Sodium Sulfite with a smidgen of Calgon (Sodium Hexametaphosphate) added as a sequestrant.

    Sodium Sulfite is so cheap that I'd recommend using up the HCA (as HCA).
  14. OP
    sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

    Feb 8, 2007
    4x5 Format
    Hope I'm not bugging people
    Thanks for the responses

    Couple developers I'm wondering if anyone has info on
    I think the dilution of 1:3 with the concentrated "panthermic" flash developer may be of some help in narrowing things down

    SOFTONE i'm just thinking may be a D23/25 metol type

    The 57-D developer. I wonder what that is. High Contrast like a Kodalith maybe? Used back in the 20-40's probably with the rectigraph machines and whatnot
    I didn't buy any of the photo-writ paper that came in long rolls not knowing what it was
    Photo-writ and others is what these machines used in camera to copy with and is listed on the can as one of the paper types this formula was used with

    Rudolph Kingslake commented that Haloid made a great copy paper that may be this Photo-writ that I do not own
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2008