Forte Polywarmtone yellowing

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Gary Holliday, Feb 14, 2008.

  1. Gary Holliday

    Gary Holliday Member

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    I've just finished a series of prints on Forte Polywarmtone FB in Ilford Warmtone developer.

    After reviewing them, I've noticed that 3 of the prints have very strong yellowing on the image and borders.

    As I tend to experiment a lot, I gave some of the prints 1.5 - 2 mins underdevelopment during the session to achieve a warmer look. The other prints were given 4 minutes.

    All prints were soaked overnight, washed in running water, hypo cleared and washed again for 10- 15 mins in running water.

    Is this yellowing normal with over exposing and under developing? Or has there been a problem with the fix or washing?

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2008
  2. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    Not the first but the second. After stop what
    proceedures were used? Dan
     
  3. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    This kind of yellowing is incomplete fixing, you really need to use 2 bath fixing ensuring the silver-thiosulphate complexes are totally soluble and wash out.

    Ian
     
  4. ath

    ath Member

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    Forte polywarmtone needs fresh, strong (film strength) fixer.
     
  5. panastasia

    panastasia Member

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    I agree with Ian and Andreas regarding fresh fixer.

    Note: Forte PWT is one of my papers of choice, and it responds most beautifully when using developers that include Glycin. It gets rid of the greenish cast.

    Regards,
    Paul
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2008
  6. Gary Holliday

    Gary Holliday Member

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    I don't always two bath fix. On this occassion I used one bath of fresh Ilford Rapid Fix 1+9. With lots of agitation for about 4 mins or so.
     
  7. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    i would suggest that the ratio of fixer is too weak. switch to 1:3
     
  8. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    It's not so much the strength of the fixer it's more the silver content, so as you used a one bath fixer the silver content builds up, as a consequence the residual silver-thiosulphate complexes aren't fully soluble in water.

    Ian
     
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  9. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    i would agree that it is the silver content; and frankly i count prints when i print for archival purposes (meaning surface area).

    with test prints i might use 1:9, but not for any serious work.
     
  10. ath

    ath Member

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    Ian, it's not only silver content with polywarmtone. I had this happen with two bath fixing and rather old, but low silver content second bath. It seems to be more complex.
     
  11. Gary Holliday

    Gary Holliday Member

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    Well this is news to me, I didn't realise that PWT was so fussy. This was a first run of prints so not many went through the fix.
     
  12. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    this can occur with any paper, not just the polywarmtone.
     
  13. Confusion Circle

    Confusion Circle Member

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    When were the Forte papers discontinued?
     
  14. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Early last year (2007). No-one wanted to buy them.

    Ian
     
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  15. Confusion Circle

    Confusion Circle Member

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    I heard it was a great paper. There is a camera store that has a few 11x14 50 sheet packs left...I was wondering if I should try it out.
     
  16. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    This seems to happen more with Warm-tone papers than other.

    I'd never really thought about it but it never happened at all when I first started in photography using Bromesko or Kodak Bromide paper, fixing in Sodium Thiosulphate fixers. Then using Ilford Galerie, Multigrade never a problem.

    As soon as I began using Record Rapid (Portriga) and by then only Ammonium Thiosulphateb fixers, 1985/6 fixing became more of an issue, that continued with Multi-Contrast Classic. (It's never an issue with RC papers). Forte Polywarmtone seems more susceptible, it's a thicker paper base.

    Some people fix in Ammonium Thiosulphate fixers and then use a plain Sodium Thiosulphate bath prior to washing, that seems to make a lot of sense.

    Ian
     
  17. ath

    ath Member

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    I had it happen with polywarmtone RC. While I agree, that proper fixing is not trivial with all papers, polywamtone seems to be extra picky.
     
  18. Whatadame

    Whatadame Member

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    What shop? I'd be very interested in purchasing it.
     
  19. Confusion Circle

    Confusion Circle Member

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    Ah, sorry, I bought the lot, and all their AGFA papers as well.
     
  20. Whatadame

    Whatadame Member

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    If you decide that it isn't your cup of tea, let me know. I'll take it off your hands.
    Thanks.
     
  21. panastasia

    panastasia Member

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    Try B&H, they to have some in stock, look for "Polygrade Warm Plus - same stuff I believe - if you click on "more info", Polywarmtone is described as the product, or as the old version of the same . I'm not absolutely sure, so check it out and judge for yourself.
     
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  22. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    May make a lot of sense but not so much more than
    other methods as posts this thread will verify. Ansel
    did use a 'Plain fixer" made alkaline with sodium
    sulfite prior to toning with KRST in a solution
    of Kodak HCA.

    Of course there is always the question of what is the
    sensible thing to do and what are the priorities.
    Sensible being an observance of the priorities.

    I'd say the usual top priority is convenience.
    Repeatedly pouring fixer in and out of a bottle and
    tracking the square inches processed is convenient
    for some. It ignores though the actual condition of the
    used fixer. The condition of the fixer should be the top
    priority. Counting square inches is a one-size fits all
    papers approach which can lead to wide margins
    for error and good chemistry down the drain.

    With the condition of the fixer as the top priority
    it's proof of doing well is the print it self. My method
    establishes a chemistry minimum for each paper. What
    ever the dilution happens to be using a standardized
    processing technique I'm assured of a thoroughly
    fixed print with little margin of chemistry
    going down the drain. Dan