Fortepan 400 - emulsion defective???

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by monemmer, Dec 29, 2007.

  1. monemmer

    monemmer Member

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    I bought ten rolls of Fortepan 400 from freestyle photo and after developing the second roll, yesterday, I am starting to think that there is something wrong with this batch of film. Here is an example:

    http://flickr.com/photos/wakingsky/2144974109/

    There are a bunch of small black dots that run along two bands along the length of the film. You'd have to look at the large or the original size images on flickr to see them. For reference, I am also attaching a small crop of what these dots look like in the original size image.

    The first roll was developed in Rodinal 1+25 and the second in D76 1+1 for 15 minutes at 20C. Both films had the exact same pattern of black dots. These are the only two times that I have seen this kind of thing and both times with Fortepan 400 from the same shrink wrapped 10 pack of 120 film. The image I am referring to here was from the second roll that was developed in D76.

    I have read about craters and comets but was not able to find any good examples of what these look like. So I am asking you all what is this. Is the film defective and should I send it back to Freestyle, or am I doing something wrong. I am using the exact same development schedule that works very well for Fomapan, Fuji Acros, Agfa APX and others...

    - Markus
     

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  2. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

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    That does look like defective coating. You do know that Forte is gone as a manufacturer. There will be no more Forte film.
     
  3. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Now wait.... We are looking at black dots on a positive image, right? That means that the spots are clear on the negative, right?

    PE
     
  4. Aurelien

    Aurelien Advertiser Advertiser

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    indeed I have also seen that problem on Bergger 100 : lots of dots on the print. so pinholes in the emulsion, coated by Forte.
     
  5. DarkroomExperimente

    DarkroomExperimente Member

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    uh oh...I just ordered a bunch of short-dated fortepan 400 from freestyle last night

    if it's defective, it'll still be fine for experiments I guess
     
  6. RobertP

    RobertP Subscriber

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    Do they feel gritty? Like specs of sand?
     
  7. RobertP

    RobertP Subscriber

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    I've had it happen to me a few years ago with forte 400 8x 20 ULF film. But It was only about 8 sheets out of a box. I thought it was my water/ developer. But they were small black specs that felt granular. I use to love the look of this film. But as we all know they didn't have the latest quality control program in place.
     
  8. monemmer

    monemmer Member

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    I should have said that this was the short dated special on Fortepan from Freestyle. The box of the last roll I developed was embossed with "01.2008-5831". The film does not at all feel gritty.

    I guess this will be my film for testing purposes. Just have to hope never to make an exposure that I might want to keep...
     
  9. mikebarger

    mikebarger Subscriber

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    Guess I better put a little more 120 Tri-X in the freezer. While I have a difficult time getting a good image on the film :wink:, the product has NEVER failed me.

    Mike
     
  10. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

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    FWIW, I just shot and processed one of two rolls of this film that I bought from Freestyle. The box marking is very faint, but I think the emulsion code is the same that Markus reports. I used DS-10 developer with a water stop and TF-3 fixer, and I got defects that look very much like what Markus posted. Here are full-frame 600 dpi and cropped 1200 dpi negative scans:

    http://www.rodsbooks.com/fortepan-sample.jpg
    http://www.rodsbooks.com/fortepan-crop.jpg

    You can just make out the flaw in the full-frame 600 dpi scan, and it's much more obvious in the 1200 dpi crop. I haven't yet tried printing these negatives conventionally, but the spots are clearly visible as clear specks in the negative when viewed with a loupe. Interestingly, they're most noticeable in areas of medium density -- they aren't very obtrusive in the white snow areas I photographed. The emulsion doesn't feel at all gritty.

    I've just fired off an e-mail to Freestyle. Since I only bought two rolls, and used the first for testing a new lens, it's not a big financial loss for me, but of course it's annoying to get defective film.
     
  11. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Someone else just started a similar thread. I don't remember if it was the same film or not, but I had not posted there. I was thinking it over. You might want to look it up. This might be a problem with 3 reports. IDK.

    PE
     
  12. IOS

    IOS Member

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    I have the same issue with a roll of HIE that i bought from freestyle ! People told me that my issue was bubbles or dust but i dont belive it. I think the roll was bad, here is a shot from the roll i got from freestlye. Let me know if it looks the same as yours.

    Jim
     

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  13. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

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    I just posted to your thread before seeing your reply here! :wink: Since they're different films they may well have different issues. In my case, I'm not sure I'd buy the dust explanation, since I'd expect the dust to show up quite clearly on the snowscapes I was photographing, but it doesn't; the spots are clearest in areas of medium density. Your sample looks similar in that respect. I'd also expect air bells to show up in white snow areas, although I don't think I've ever seen anything that might be air bells in my own photos, so I'm not positive of that. Also, in the case of the Fortepan, it'd be quite a coincidence for several people to have air bells with the same film but not with others.

    It is at least slightly peculiar that you bought yours from Freestyle, since that's where the (presumably) defective Fortepan is coming from. My hunch is that's just a coincidence, but I'm willing to entertain the idea that Freestyle (or somebody shipping to or from Freestyle) did something to damage the emulsions. I bought several other rolls of film at the same time I bought my Fortepan, and I've shot and processed one of those rolls, with no problems in it.
     
  14. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    That is not dust.

    Actually, if it were white dots on the print, it would remind me of radiation damage such as dust from a radioactive material, but this is black dots on the print. I'm having a hard time figuring this one out.

    PE
     
  15. IOS

    IOS Member

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    My issue is with 2 rolls i bought from freestyle, they both came out like this. I think there may have been a storage issue at freestyle.
     
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