Fuji Crystal Archive color balance in camera

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by tiberiustibz, Apr 5, 2008.

  1. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    I acquired an ancient camera by most standards which says KODAK in fancy lettering and uses 122 postcard roll film. As I didn't happen to have any I stuck some fuji crystal archive color paper cut down to 4x5 inches. It definitely works and I've figured the ASA of the paper to be ~~8.

    I now have a problem because all my negatives have a reddish to magenta cast and all my prints are coming out cyan until I cancel that out and am left with an almost monotone print that looks ugly. I want to filter in camera so to cancel out a cyan print cast, I would use a red filter? Red filters out cyan light...but if it increases red percentage it would increase the cyan in the negative, which you increase the magenta and yellow in the final print evening it all out, in theory. For magenta I would need green? I need some help because every time I work through the logic I get a different answer:confused:.

    Has anyone had experience with exposing this in camera? I've just always gotten my base values and printed, though come to think of it it's always been a reddish light when the values are set. The paper is blue to cyan in color before processing...

    I understand reciprocity can be an issue when exposing at "fast" speeds like 1/25 of a second. Since the camera has 25,50,100 and bulb I am going to end up shooting 1/25 a lot of the time so I don't have to go beyond 2 seconds to where I can accurately time the exposures off hand. Can anyone fill me in the reciprocity? I heard that it's fine between 3-30 seconds, but what will happen? Specifically color shift.

    Attached is an inverted neg scan. Notice there is red in the tail light.
     

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  2. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Paper for printing color negatives is balanced for tungsten plus the orange mask that color negs have plus a standard filter pack that would be adjusted for differences between films and lighting conditions of different scenes. That's probably going to add up to something like two 85B filters plus some yellow and magenta to fine tune it.
     
  3. David Grenet

    David Grenet Member

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    It's basically tungsten balanced + whatever the starting filter pack is (about 50R).

    You could try reversal processing the paper to get a positive - there are posts on photo.net by a poster called bujor b who used colour paper in camera with this method. I plan to try it when I get around to getting the colour chems (although I've printed transparencies onto CA with this process before).

    Btw 'fast' speeds such as you mention shouldn't be much of a problem with modern colour paper as it's designed for digital printers with short exposure times...
     
  4. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    8 actually sounds slow for a RA-4 paper.

    There was the thread on a magazine article here. Last fall? The writer is exposing in an ULF if that helps with the search. The issues he needs to look at for light balancing will be similar for you. The fact you're using different papers is just an extra problem.

    I'm not sure I get what you mean by negative and print. Are you making paper negatives? Why not make one offs and limit the issues.

    To lower cyan in the print you add cyan.
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The actual ISO is closer to 100 in the blue, 50 in green and 25 in red, but due to all the filtration needed, who knows what the speed will end up.

    Start with a heavy orange or red filter used to convert tungsten film to daylight use. Then go from there.

    PE
     
  6. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    Aha! That's why. Thank you.
    I'm using the one designed for optical printing...not the modernized one although I might get that next time if I want to try gloss...

    I've read it a while ago. I'm using fuji crystal archive paper which it said in that thread didn't work with the process. It's intuitive if you think about the CD versus B+W Dev, I might try it but I have to get the filtration to within any reasonable amount. I'm going to be getting some "ultrafine" paper for when I start 4x5 printing in 11x14 and I'll get a box of 5x7 then. IDK what brand it is specifically...

    So why am I getting an ASA of 8? I'm running room temp so that **might** cause something. Plus I'm not giving it the full 3' normally used for RT RA4 because I'm ignorant and want to see my pictures faster. Closer to polaroid that way :-D. Reciprocity have something to do with it? At slower times (4-5") I seem to get a little more exposure.

    If I need to pull down the blue by 2 stops and the green by 1 what filters would I need? They seem to be shifting towards magenta or yellow depending on the conditions. Daylight is more yellow than magenta. Fluorescent "tungsten" around the house is more magenta than yellow. That seems to follow PE's info...
     
  7. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    I'll bet if you shot under tungsten light, the speed would be up.

    But, it might just be Fuji paper. All of my work was with Endura.

    PE
     
  8. David Grenet

    David Grenet Member

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    I would suggest to go with the orange filter (designed for using tungsten film in daylight) as PE suggested above or tungsten light (also suggested by PE - he's almost always right, you know :wink: )

    On top of that, I'd probably start with 50M + 50Y (normal starting filter pack) and go from there.

    As for the reversal with Fuji CA, try it! I had better success with Fuji CA80 paper (that's how it's branded down here in Australia) than my box of Endura Supra, but I know this isn't consistent with everyone else's results. Success with Kodak Edge (consumer paper - only available in rolls) too.
    Btw I posted my results a month or so ago, so if you're interested you can look it up.

    Good luck, and post your results!

    David.
     
  9. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    David;

    Thanks, but fortunately, I'm only human and therefore do err. For example, once I thought I was wrong. :D

    Actually though, having worked on color papers at EK for nearly 10 years taught me a lot about this stuff.

    PE
     
  10. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Try on camera filtration of 80 yellow and 65 magenta. If ISO 8 worked w/o filtration try an ei of 1 or .5 with the filtration I mention (65magenta `2 stops and O believe 0 yellow would be about 1 stop). If you shoot under tungstun light lower the filtration by 15 magenta and 30 yellow.
     
  11. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    FYI my printing filter pack for Reala is 12.5Y 25M. I almost had to use the cyan when printing superia (don't ask me why).
     
  12. Photo Engineer

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    People are reporting a considerable change in filtration on recent batches of Fuji paper. IDK why, but this might be due to the new Fuji CA II paper in the old process or just the new paper itself.

    Watch out for orange yellows and red magentas with this type of thing. You can also get green cyans or blue cyans. IDK for sure, but they are close to the edge for crosstalk with that kind of filter pack.

    PE