Fuji Crystal Archive Type 2 Vs. Type C HELP!

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by slightlyleft, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. slightlyleft

    slightlyleft Member

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    I have been printing on Type C professional Fuji paper since I ran out of my cut Kodak paper, with great results. However I was running low so I went to B&H to get some more, when I asked for Type C they handed me was Type 2, I wasn't too worried so I started printing on it today. After making my last Type C print I popped in my Type 2, same numbers in the pack and everything- the print was a complete mess. Type 2 has extremely flat colors, mottled blacks, and is very thin, its pretty gross and presents a whole new set of corrections that I have to deal with before I get back on to the rhythm I had found with Type C. Does anyone have any advice about how to deal with this paper, or even better a recommendation for a paper to better replace Type C?
     
  2. Particle Accelerator

    Particle Accelerator Member

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    Oh no. I just got 3 boxes of Type 2 from B&H yesterday. I had also been using the C, and found that to be a little lackluster in the colors. Now you're saying Type 2 is flat. Crapola. $150 down the drain. But this doesn't seem plausible. Fuji raves about their new and improved colors and I'm sure they didn't make a drab paper to compete with Kodak. Chem wise I've made home brew RA-4 Developer, and I have used Kodak RA-RT, and found the results to be the same. I also used to use now unavailable FotoSpeed Kits, and they produced brilliant strong colors, which I still have not been able to replicate. All from FCA Type C. So that tells me it's not the paper giving me the drabs. As for the filter pack being crazy different, I guess thats almost to be expected. Also it's disappointing to hear that Type 2 is thinner. Oh the humanity!! I kinda doubt if jumping to Kodak and cutting the clumsy rolls in the dark is necessarily a sure fix, but many have written that Kodak Film, with their paper and their chemistry is the way to go. Still there is no reason Fuji Paper in any RA-4 should be drab. This must not stand.
     
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  3. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    So is it really that bad, the Type II? Should I get some Kodak rolls instead? If so, which ones???
     
  4. scarletbegonias

    scarletbegonias Member

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    Hpulley- Yeah, I think it's "that bad." I blew $300 on Type II paper and I sacrificed two boxes of 16x20 simply for the dark bag and box. I have no idea what Fuji was thinking and I question if they did any analog testing. I special ordered a roll of matte Super Type C from B+H and it arrived in a timely manner. It just took three hours on a Saturday to cut 10% of it down. I posted in another thread that Type II is good for two things: bird cage lining and causing analog color shooters to go digital (which I refuse to do until it's totally gone).

    Larry, Colorado
     
  5. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    Has anybody actually been able to make good prints with this stuff?

    And on the subject of cutting down Kodak rolls, it seems there's a bewildering variety of those out now too. What's been discontinued (Endura?) and what has not been that still works ok? How do folks cut this stuff down? Any problems with curls from having been in a roll?

    If decently usable paper is available in long rolls it seems someone by now would have a little side business cutting it into sheets. Maybe Freestyle could be persuaded to add a house brand of color paper that's really just cut down rolls of Kodak? Assuming Kodak agreed of course. Unlike the film, it wouldn't have to be any cheaper. Most of us would pay a reasonable premium just for cut paper.

    Just when I was about to talk myself into getting back into color in my re-enthusiasm for photography and the darkroom, it seems the paper has been yanked from under me. I'm half tempted to just go back to Ilfochrome. It's ungodly expensive in comparison and special order but it IS available, and I always liked printing on it and the results back in the day. Of course that also assumes I could continue to get E6 films for a while.
     
  6. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Member

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    Somebody is cutting Kodak Endura down because I saw boxes of it for sale on ebay. They were white boxes rather than Kodak yellow. Endura is the name of all of Kodak's color paper. Supra Endura (medium contrast) was discontinued in sheets and replaced by Supra Endura VC in rolls, Portra Endura (low contrast) was discontinued altogether years ago, and Ultra Endura (high contrast) is still available in rolls.
     
  7. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    What is the best color paper to get while we still can? I ask because a 5"x575' roll of Kodak Ektacolor Supra III is almost 1000 5x7 prints so if I get it I hope I like it. The price is right at least though the shipping is almost as much! Too old?
     
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  8. EdSawyer

    EdSawyer Member

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    Supra III pre-dates Endura, so that will be pretty out of date. I'd skip it ( the 5 x 575 roll).

    Basically any later supra endura in sheets is still worth snagging. I am sitting on 4000 sheets or so in various sizes.

    It lasts a long time, even well past it's out-of-date range. Even longer if you freeze it I think. I am using some from years ago and it's still fine.

    -Ed
     
  9. Mark Crabtree

    Mark Crabtree Member

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    Does anyone know more about this change? When did the Type 2 come out? I use Type P for contact printing and Type C for enlarging. Are they still available.

    I'll call Fuji when I get a chance, but sometimes the info from analog users is more helpful since most things are geared to digital now.
     
  10. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Supra III is indeed very out of date. I would not use it However, the worst is that it will lose speed and yellow a bit.

    Fuji, type II CA supposedly takes a new developer according to a paper given by the workers at Fuji and presented at the ICIS a few years back. That may be your problem. You should look into it.

    PE
     
  11. darkroom_rookie

    darkroom_rookie Member

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    What is the main difference (if any) between Type II and Type DP II?
     
  12. anikin

    anikin Subscriber

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    If you are talking about the roll on b&h web site, I bought it. I too could not resist a bargain. It produces nice rich colors. The wrapping of the roll I got was a bit damaged by shipping, so it has a touch of fogging on the edge in one spot of the roll. Otherwise, no age-induced fogging and no yellowing. Great paper. While old, it prints much better than the newer Supra Endura that I have which does show quite a bit of fogging from its age. YMMV.

    Eugene.
     
  13. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    Thanks, it is indeed a bargain.
     
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  15. Jeff Bannow

    Jeff Bannow Member

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    I've printed optically onto Type II paper with no problems at all. I would suggest as Photo Engineer did, to look into your chemistry.
     
  16. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    That's great to know, Jeff. Did you use regular RA4RT chemistry? Kodak?
     
  17. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Member

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    From the Fuji tech. sheet: "This paper is designed for use with FUJICOLOR Paper Process CP-40FA, CP-43FA, CP-47L, CP-48S, and CP-49E, or RA-4 type processes." You may want to see if you can get one of the other processes and if it gives better results.
     
  18. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    A quick checked turned that up in 11x14 only. I think I'll drop them a line and ask a) if it's in date (listing doesn't say) and b) if they will do other sizes. If I can get 8x10 and 11x14 I'm good. I occasionally like to print 5x7 but I can cut down a sheet of 8x10 now and then, or use my old multiprint easel that does two 5x7s or other combinations on one sheet of 8x10. 16x20 would be nice but I don't even have an easel that size right now.
     
  19. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    Who has cut Endura? How much? No shipping of an RA-4 paper from Henrys yet, still thinking about that old Ektacolor roll at B&H.
     
  20. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    Search eBay for "Kodak Endura Supra" and you'll turn it up in 11x15 F and N surface.

    I haven't asked the seller about other sizes or expiration date because I'm not ready to buy now, but I wish someone would.
     
  21. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    I found some 8x10 Supra Endura, 4/2009 dated on the bay. I bought a pack, the auction listing says it has more than 10 more packs of it but I want to try a pack first before buying a lot (though there may be none left by the time it gets here to try out). There is some Fuji Type C from another seller but they only have 2 packs. Those are the only sellers (that ship to Canada anyways) that I could find of any color paper so unless I'm using the wrong search parameters the stuff really is scarce!

    The capacity of the 10L Kodak RA-4 kit should be something like 500 8x10 or 1000 4x5" sheets, right? So that 575' foot roll from B&H would perfectly match it for capacity but I could only make small 5x7ish or 5" wide panoramic prints. At least 8x10" is a decent size. Might want to get a roll of the Ektacolor too, it is so darned cheap. I just hope my Kodak 10L kit actually arrives, if not I'll have to get the Tetenal 5L kit or I'll have some color paper packs to stare at...
     
  22. Jeff Bannow

    Jeff Bannow Member

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    The paper was run through a Kreonite dry to dry 20" processor. I'll check to see what chemistry was used (this was at a public darkroom).

    I was only doing contact sheets, but didn't see anything particularly off about the colors or contrast.
     
  23. EdSawyer

    EdSawyer Member

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    Endura from 2009 will be fine. I've used stuff much older than that with fine results. It is somewhat scarce though I still keep finding it.

    10L of RA-4 should do at least 500 8x10s. Probably more. I am on my first batch of 10L that I am keeping track of, and am about 7L down, with several hundred 8x10 and 8.5x11 prints made. I turned down the replenishment quite a bit and it still processes great. (CP-31).

    Enjoy,
    -Ed
     
  24. John Meyer

    John Meyer Member

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    Does anyone know if Fuji is going to continue to make the Super Type C in rolls.
    I see it still listed on B&H web sight but not in luster for 20in rolls.
    Are they going to drop the Super C rolls for the Type 11 and PD stuff..
    John
     
  25. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    So I've now printed with all three types I've got so far, Kodak Ektacolor Supra III in 5"x575' roll which I cut up in the dark, Kodak Supra Endura 8x10" sheets (Expired 2009) and fresh Fuji Crystal Archive Type II 8x10" sheets. I'm surprised, the Supra III is old but it still looks great! No fogging at all, nice colors, not hard to balance, quite neutral colors. The Supra Endura is quite warm, I have to work hard to get rid of some extra yellow though I do like how it looks overall. The CA Type II also works though it seems tough for me to get the color balance perfect but it can be done with some tweaking; the Fuji CA is quite cold compared to the Endura. I was thinking about getting some 11x14" Endura to try but I'm still unsure as I'm actually finding it the toughest to color balance of the three papers and my wife really prefers smaller prints for snapshot type stuff so even 8x10" is kind of big for most of what I do in color. Might get one box of 11x14" for some nice color landscapes...

    I'm printing from Ektar, Reala, NPH, Portra 160NC, 400VC, mostly developed myself in the Tetenal Powder. I'm using the Kodak Ektacolor RA-4 RT 10L kits but just making up 500mL of dev and blix at a time for my little 8x10" trays.

    I find all three papers quite usable. I seem to have bought the last 5" roll of Supra from B&H and have half a mind to pick up the 4" roll too, for $29 it is such a great deal for a long roll! But it will probably take me a while to print through the 5"x575' which is going to be something close to 1000 5x7" prints plus a few 5x14" panoramas. How much longer will that old paper last I don't know, perhaps a second roll would be foolish thinking I'd get through it.

    If all I can get is CA Type II then I can print on it. It is very lightweight but easy to use. I actually haven't used the Fuji Type C so I may not know what I'm missing.
     
  26. rphenning

    rphenning Member

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    does anyone tray develop with CA II?