Fuji Hunt Chrome 6X for home tank processing?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by tsiklonaut, Nov 16, 2012.

  1. tsiklonaut

    tsiklonaut Member

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    Guys,

    I'm seriously considering buying a kit and trying it out.

    What do you reckon, would the Fuji Hunt Chrome 6X kit be doable in normal "home" tank processing?

    I hear it brings better results than Tetenal E6 kit plus the positives last longer, but I guess there's a lot more "art" needed doing the longer process which I guess is harder with a normal (non-motorized-rotary/non-lifted/non-temp-stabilized) tank.

    I maybe got around +/-1C deg precision using a simple temperature stabilized tub, which is slightly over the recommended 0.6C deg precision recommended by Fuji for the colour developer, so not sure how much it'll affect the colour results. Also would it be worth aquiring some pH meter for better and more consistent results? The rest of the baths don't seem to be so sensitive for the temperature and pH.

    Anyone tried the new Fuji's 6X kit in "home-brewed" E6 developing? Any tips or tricks?

    Or should I stick to 3-bath kit (Tetenal) and be satisfyed with inferior results and shorter archival times?

    TIA.
     
  2. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    Do it. You won't regret it.

    It does go off in a few months though, I found that the concentrates will crystallise in their bottles. So you want to have about 40-50 rolls on-hand ready to go.
     
  3. tsiklonaut

    tsiklonaut Member

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    Crystallising in few months doesn't sound good :confused:

    I mostly never have so much slides ready to use all the kit as "one-shot" - maybe only after I've done some bigger trip, but this is rare.

    Would love to have a kit that'd be good for at least half a year or so if I store them in smaller airtight bottles and use anti-oxidant before closling. So you reckon the 6X concentrates can't make that long on a shelf?

    I though the 6X kit is more stable since the chemicals aren't mixed and Fuji promotes this new kit as not-so-consumerist kit as the previous ones - i.e. it's designed for today's machines that have lower throughput and stay shut for long periods of time. But looks like I got this wrong?
     
  4. Neil Grant

    Neil Grant Member

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    Probably not what you wan to hear: CONSISTENCY : mixing chemistry to correct specific gravity, control strips and densitometry - just to set the run up. Otherwise, accept the process is unique to you and of undetermined quality. It's a lot of effort to do E6 really well (ie in control) which is why I send out to a good lab.
     
  5. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    The crystallisation was about a year after it was originally opened. It seems to be good for about 6mo.

    If you can't use it all up in that time though, it might be a good idea to split the kit with someone to get more value out of it.
     
  6. David Nardi

    David Nardi Member

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    I've got 3 5L boxes of Tetenal E6 ready to mix. I need to process about 90 rolls of 35mm and 120, 10 rolls of Super 8, plus another 25 sheets of 4x5 in a Jobo ATL 1000. Is it true that Fuji Hunt would provide better long term stability to the films over the Tetenal kit? If I could, I would still be using Kodak's 5L kit. A shame they discontinued it. It was a wonderful kit that gave me the results I needed for over 6 years.

    But since Tetenal is the only kit I could get here in Canada at an affordable price, I decided to choose it over the Fuji kit. Though I would pick a 6-bath kit over a 3-bath any day. But the price was of concern. The Fuji kits were 2.5 times the price of the Tetenal and I had to source it overseas. Last time I remember I think no seller I contacted would even ship the Fuji kit here. Another reason to settle on Tetenal. Seems to be my only option. I've heard both good and bad regarding it's stability. What do you think?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2012
  7. David Nardi

    David Nardi Member

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    By the way, just do it. Though I haven't used the Fuji Hunt chems I'm sure they would be on par with the 'ol Kodak kit. Once you settle on way to process your E6 films, you will love the results. Just make sure you follow the instructions carefully and keep your chems up to temp (this may be the hardest part with manual development). I've got a Jobo processor so it's a no-brainer. But I don't use any pH meters or anything. Just single shot chemistry mixed according to instructions. For the last 6 years it's been Kodak so this will be my first time with Tetenal. I also wait till I have about 40-50 rolls/sheets to develop so the chemicals are used fresh. E6 developing is just as easy as black and white and the results for me looked better than anything I got from a lab. You'll ask yourself why you haven't done your own developing sooner.
     
  8. darkroom_rookie

    darkroom_rookie Member

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    Very doable, even if you don't have the processor. You just need to hunt for an extra lid and modify it by epoxying a cup on the underneath. Cup needs to be half-open at the to and the lid needs to be taped to the Expert drum with self-adhesive tape to prevent leakage. Temp is easily controlled with cheap Chinese titanium aquarium heaters - two will heat a large water tank to 38 deg. C easily. I did many runs of 4x5" transparencies and every one turned out perfect. One-shot, of course. Chems are in a dedicated fridge under Vineyard Fresh (97% argon, 3% nitrogen). Just do it!
     
  9. bascom49

    bascom49 Subscriber

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    I am interested in using the fuji kit also.Where are you planning on purchasing the chemistry ?
     
  10. tsiklonaut

    tsiklonaut Member

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    Are you in EU or US?

    I'm in EU and I was looking at MACO Direct since they've been very efficent for me in the past - they ship with just few days around EU:

    http://www.macodirect.de/fuji-hunt-chrome-processing-litres-p-2509.html
    It was 95 euros just week ago (and it was around 90€ around a month or so ago), now it's suddenly €99.99 :whistling:

    Still not too bad - it used to be the same price but now slightly more expensive than Tetenal E6 (€90) and it also makes less films (they claim approx 40 rolls vs 60 rolls with Tetenal). But hearing how good colour quality results people have gotten with Fuji + claimed to have better archival longetivity than Tetenal maybe still worth a try?
     
  11. bascom49

    bascom49 Subscriber

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    You're a lucky fellow. I'm in the US. Our only choice seems to be ordering from overseas and paying high shipping costs.
     
  12. bascom49

    bascom49 Subscriber

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    Actually, shipping to my address here in the States is 94 euros for two kits.I also do not have to pay the vat making my cost
    84.03 euros a kit. Not unreasonable.
     
  13. bascom49

    bascom49 Subscriber

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    There is a cost break on the shipping for two kits. One kit 72.8 euros. Two kits 94 euros for shipping to NC.

    4.21 a roll in US dollars if ship two kits.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2012
  14. tsiklonaut

    tsiklonaut Member

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    Well well, looks like Santa was late this year, but because of his mistakes he really took care of what I've dreamed of havin' - he damn knew exacly what to bring and exacly how to turn me on:

    [​IMG]
    E6 & C41 kits by tsiklonaut, on Flickr


    [​IMG]
    Fuji E6 & C41 kits by tsiklonaut, on Flickr


    OK, some film too to work on:

    [​IMG]
    Late Christmas by tsiklonaut, on Flickr


    Soon i'll have to take on my first E6 and C41 DIY project without any processor - with a simple development tank only.

    This is no Tetenal kit, it's the full 6 solutions for the E6 dev. C41 seems to be very easy in comparison - only 3 solutions.

    Will post the results - win or lose (erm, I mean a success or a disaster :D)


    Cheers,
    Margus
     
  15. pukalo

    pukalo Member

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    Congratulations, those are some great Christmas presents;-).
    Enjoy the Fuji E6 kits, but honestly, having used both the Kodak and Tetnal kits, I would continue to use Tetenal even if the Kodak were still available. The results are identical - quality sparkling slides that will last a lifetime. The blix based kits are fine for 1,2,3 shot then discard use. They are not however suitable for replenished systems. Which is no problem at all for home DIY users, as most are not looking to fire up an industrial processor doing many rolls each day (with small replenishment injections) and changing chemicals only evey so many weeks (a replenished system).
    I too was concerned at first, but did much web searching and did not find any posts claiming faded slides from Tetenal kits (which have been in use since at least the mid 1990's). Actually, I found the opposite - a few users who have 15 plus year old Tetenal slides that are still pristine. In fact, as Tetenal uses the original and time tested use of formaldehyde based final stabilizing rinse, I would bet that it may be more durable than the reduced formaldehyde process introduced later.
    Also, I have not found any issues with silver retention (the other claim made against 3 bath). Again, the blix is mixed, used, and discarded in a week or two, while it is still fresh and potent.
    As a final note, washing is critical. I double the wash time between steps, especially the final wash. This should give better longevity than most lab based processing, where they are concerned with balancing profit, throoughput, and longevity (in that order). Residual contaminants can be harmful and increase fading.
    Anyways, enjoy the Fuji 6 bath, but for others, dont be disuaded from trying the Tetenal kit. It is now avaialble again in the US through Freestyle Photo, and is key to the long term survival of slide film here as lab afetr lab closes. Well, longer term in a very relative sense....
    Plus it gives fantastic results and is super easy to use.
     
  16. David Nardi

    David Nardi Member

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    I agree with pukalo. I have been using the Tetenal kits now for 6 months and am completely thrilled with the results. I've developed over 100 rolls and dozens of sheets of film with beautiful quality and colour. I am sad that the good 'ol Yellow Kodak kits are no more, but Tetenal has filled the gap quite seamlessly. I've found no longevity issues with the Tetenal kits either and am so confident with the results that I have decided to start up my processing services again for those who have no time, patience, or interest in developing their own colour films. Check it out at www.e6it.ca
     
  17. tsiklonaut

    tsiklonaut Member

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    Formaldehyde is something I'd stay away from anyway, even if it does the job somehow better I'd rather let my slides die in few weeks of fading than suffer cancer myself or any of my closebyes sometime in the future because of using it.

    I'm sure we all like what we use and are used to using.

    Tetenal is probably THE most used kit by DIY home type of developers so no wonder. It's simple and elegant kit no doubt, comes cheaper per-roll too. With this 3-bath Tetenal kit my local lab has done most of my slides and often I'm not satisfyed with the colour results when I knew I had the best possible colours spotmetered on the shooting scene.

    I've always wanted to try the real thing: 6-bath as the process should be and was designed for, so hence the DIY experiment I'm undertaking now. There're no guarantees of course. But just couldn't miss it to try the real thing at least once in my life :smile:

    This is how I'll do it, home-brew style.

    [​IMG]
    Fuji E6 development kit by tsiklonaut, on Flickr
     
  18. darkroom_rookie

    darkroom_rookie Member

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    Don't worry, Margus, you'll do fine. The only bits that I'd add are one or two titanium aquarium heaters and a small pump, and maybe a bit bigger plastic tank, all pretty cheap. Also, if you can scrounge a small programmable timer with audible signals, that would make your job even easier. But this is probably nitpicking, since I develop others' films so need to make sure both temp & time are close to required. Have fun!

    OT: did you manage to get the G4 and 2904 card to work?
     
  19. tsiklonaut

    tsiklonaut Member

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    Hi Marin,

    Good to hear from you!

    Yep, an actively temperature stabilized bath would be the best. Your right about the timer with sound signals - would make things alot easier. Do you have any recommendations?


    Offtopic: I got the card flashed and is working in the old G4. But the scanner is still crashing. I completely dismantled it, including the boards etc. I also had a focus issue - it didn't focus anymore and focus elevation also didin't work (scanner took it's own focus after every scan or priview - it went completely mad). I dismantled also the sensor-head and after days of experimenting (running scanner open :smile:) I figured the focus issue out - it was a bad angle motor sensor switch. So if you have any problems with the focus in the future with your SM3000 let me know, through painful learning I know a couple of things about it.

    Scanner itself is still pretty much annoying to use, crashes every second scan - I cleaned all the boards, refreshed all the connections etc. So it must be some transistor or capacitor is bad, or some static electricity anomaly - it's got an Intel 386 processor inside btw. I'm now looking for a working SM5000 or SM11000 if I can find one.

    Take care,
    Margus
     
  20. tnabbott

    tnabbott Member

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    I use it; works great.
     
  21. tsiklonaut

    tsiklonaut Member

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    They came out allright.

    [​IMG]
    My first 6-bath E6 development by tsiklonaut, on Flickr

    I put two opposite films into the same tank (my tank thakes 2 films at the time) to be sure I have no color bias:

    Left is Kodak Aerochrome color infrared film (red dominated)
    Right is Fuji Veliva 50 shot nocturnally long exposures (blue dominated)

    One frame is missing on Velvia since my good old Pentax failed to lock into Bulb-mode for that shot - I'm using the lock in front of the camera to lock it witha a sharp object, I happened to use my motoscooter's key which didn't fit into the hole quite well :smile:

    Nocturnal Velvia is a little under exposured for my liking, although I precisely followed the reprocity error margins specified by Fuji on long exposures, maybe I should have used more First Developer time but then again then would be the Aerochrome overexposed. Next time I'll rate Veliva to around ASA32 on nocturnal action.
     
  22. lordvader

    lordvader Member

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    Nice!
    I've got a set of the Fuji chemicals in their way from Germany. Can't wait to give them a go (my last Kodak e6 kit is well past is due by date).
    Quick question, with the Kodak kits, first dev time was 7.30 for Velvia. What first dev times did you use?

    Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk HD
     
  23. tsiklonaut

    tsiklonaut Member

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    Fuji manual states with the DIY-style simple tank it's between 6 to 7 minutes and YOU must decide the best method/time judging from results and after around 2/3 of chemical yield has been used (exhausted, i.e. 5L of solution makes 44 rolls, rolls 1-30 you make with "normal" times) you need to add 30 seconds for the FD (depending on what times you decide on FD, rolls 31-44). For all rotary processors FD was only 6 minutes (not between 6-7 as with simple tank). So from this logic and having the fresh cemistry in the process I opted to exactly 6 minutes of FD.

    Next time I'll probably make 6 min 15 sec or so, but only if I have all V50 rolls in the tank - as you can see Kodak Aerochrome was spot-on exposure with 6 min FD. OR shoot the V50 at ASA32 or so - many people claim to have good results like that.

    I'd like to test which is better: shooting V50 at ASA32 and develop FD 6' OR shoot film at nominal ASA50 and process it in FD 6'15''-6'30'. Would be good to know which method provides better tonality on Velvia 50 :smile:

    I make 500ml solutions into my small tank, so the rolls 1-3 is with normal FD times, 4th roll is longer. Well actually I'm lazy enough so I put two films into 500ml tank, rolls 1&2 I make normal, rolls 3&4 I make with +25 sec of FD. Then the FD and CD are exhausted and I make new solutions. Thus I plan to use the kit for around 40 rolls (4 rolls go into "loss", but with a small tank and many processes - only 2 films per process - I'm sure with the higher oxydation factor considered the results are better and more consistent).

    PS: another interesting feature with the Fuji 6X kit is with a simple additives you can alter the colour balance in Colour Developer if you like. I do some shooting nocturnally or shortly post-sunset (goes blue for Fuji E6 films) so theorethically it can be chemically compensated by adding a little NaOH into FD solution that should be buyable from chemistry shops. Also it can be compensated a little "cooler" by adding a little H2SO4. This is something to try in the future - I'm sure when the compensation is done chemically it's artistically much better result than done in digital PP (pretty obviouys too, that's why we still shoot film). This chemical method could potentially work well for those nocturnal shots that are hard to tune right even with the warming filters. Food for thought for harmonizing my future shootings and developings.

    Just my 2c.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2013