Fujifilm FP-3000B vs INSTAX ; lack of good blacks and whites

Discussion in 'Instant Cameras, Backs and Film' started by ic-racer, May 5, 2011.

  1. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,483
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I just shot some FP-3000B last night and was a little dissapointed in the lack of good rich blacks and bright whites. When buying the film pack at the shop, I saw a bunch of little Instax color pictures they had on display and was amazed at them. In fact, I thought they were fake. They had very good contrast and sharpness, way different from how I remember SX-70.

    The last time I used the b&w Polaroid was in 1968. I recall back then that even after coating the prints with the clear stuff the dmax was not all that great and the whites were not all that good. I thought it may have been the camera or the lens, but now I have a very nice Polaroid 250 with a clear lens and just thought I'd be getting results more like the Instax pictues I saw.

    Any thoughts on this from the regular B&W instant film users? What is the best that I can expect from the Fujifilm FP-3000B?
     
  2. nickrapak

    nickrapak Member

    Messages:
    751
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Location:
    Horsham, PA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    One thing you might try is extending the development time. I still am using old Polaroid for B&W, but extending the development time about 10-15 seconds always seems to improve contrast for me.
     
  3. amuderick

    amuderick Member

    Messages:
    283
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I agree... Maybe try developing longer. The 3000b film has very deep blacks...I mean it is a silver diffusion contact print....not sure how the blacks could be blacker. Try pulling an unexposed shot to see the full frame in pure black.

    As for instax, it is worlds sharper with truer colors than sx-70. Also it holds up amazingly well in storage. I have instax film expired 7 years ago and the colors are still true when I shoot with it. Really impressive.
     
  4. hpulley

    hpulley Member

    Messages:
    2,214
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Location:
    Guelph, Onta
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Get some FP-100B, gorgeous blacks, wonderful reciprocity so you can shoot 10s shots without adjusting exposure time. Much finer detail than FP-3000B as well. Can't hand hold it indoors which is the forte of 3000B but if you have light or a tripod, 100B is the best there is.
     
  5. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,483
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for the input. I'll be using the camera at our APUG gathering in Ohio USA this weekend.
     
  6. frontdrive34

    frontdrive34 Member

    Messages:
    40
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2008
    Location:
    Sydney, Aust
    Shooter:
    Instant Films
    I've not used 3000-B but I suspect 3000-B and 100-B self terminate their development like 100-C does. I often shoot several shots of either 100 speed and don't peel them apart till I get home so adding development time surely won't do much, if anything for you.
     
  7. hpulley

    hpulley Member

    Messages:
    2,214
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Location:
    Guelph, Onta
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    When out and about I too often just leave them as they are sticky when you first peel them which is a pain in the butt. Or if I must peel them to check for exposure and composition, I try to stay near my car where I can lay them flat.
     
  8. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,483
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I shot some side-by side shots with a friend with a similar camera; both with current Fuji film, it looks like my lens has a little more flare. I had the opportunity to examine the lens very well when the keeper spring came off the second shutter blade and had to disassemble the shutter. It looks like getting the front two elements apart will be difficult. There are not grooves for a lens-wrench on the lens ring. There are three spots of glue holding the lens ring in place (impervious to acetone). I'll live with a little haze between those two elements for now.
     
  9. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,483
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    UPDATE:
    I got some good images today after solving the following camera issues:

    1) shutter was not closing all the way, fogging the film between shots --- spring tightened
    2) Using 3000 speed outdoors --- DON'T! the tiny aperture diffracts way way too much for me. Maybe some ND filters can be rigged to cover the lens and the sensor.
    3) Lens not clean --- front end disassembled and lens surfaces cleaned
     
  10. hpulley

    hpulley Member

    Messages:
    2,214
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Location:
    Guelph, Onta
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Definitely 100 speed for outdoors, same as with regular film. Would you use Delta 3200 on a sunny day? Maybe if you need 1/8000 shutter speed at f/22...
     
  11. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,483
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I can't hand-hold ISO 100 film on my 6x9cm camera (even in sunlight) so I didn't try with the Polaroid.
    I most certainly do use a faster film in daylight with a hand-held 6x9cm, for which I have a lot of experience. I can get f16 at a hand holdable speed (around 1/250 to 1/500) with an EI around 600. That is why I went with the faster film. However, unlike the Ilford product, this Fuji stuff really is 3000.



    Here is a breakdown on the apertures available to the camera:
    (there are two adjustments that change the aperture, INDOOR/OUTDOOR and the film speed)
    Focal length: 114mm
    Format diagonal: 120mm
    Optimum aperture for format: f20

    Wide Open: F 8.4 (measured. Specs are F 8.8 per the manual)
    300 - Indoors: F 12.6
    75 - Outdoors: F 19
    150 - Outdoors: F 25.3
    300- Outdoors: F 39
    3000 - Outdoors: F 50

    The problem then is that with films in the 75 and 150 range, the aperture is ok but the shutter speeds are going to be slow with the 'recommended' settings.
    The specs show the shutter can do 10 seconds to 1/1200 second (model 100 ?? 250 simiar??). In that case I'd try to avoid the "OUTDOOR" settings with the small apertures. But only more testing will tell :smile:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2011
  12. amuderick

    amuderick Member

    Messages:
    283
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I use FP-3000B outdoors in sun all the time. I can't scan 100B negatives and it is a pain in the a** to 'inventory' both film types. If you do the math you'll see that diffraction is NOT your problem. The film size, print size, and print resolution do not allow diffraction to have any measurable effect.

    I would not shoot Delta 3200 on a sunny day, because it will not hold up to enlargement. At 24mm x 35mm, that negative looks nice and sharp to your eye.

    Your problem is more likely that the large amount of light is amplifying light leaks and increasing glare in the lens elements. If you look here, you'll see a photo taken in full sun with FP-3000B: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amuderick/2611697857/in/photostream/lightbox/

    My advice is just to try another camera. There are so many out there. It almost isn't worth really trying to 'fix' one when you will eventually find one without problems.
     
  13. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,483
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    ??

    The math has been done many times. Confirmed by the eyes also :wink:

    The nice thing about most analog photography is that you can set you aperture however you want, so 'to each his own' as they say.
     
  14. Bartrama

    Bartrama Member

    Messages:
    2
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Ill have to get round to instax one of these days. My experience with 3000b in a 103 Land Camera is that whites are bright, blacks are rich and tonality is great. Not tried the 100b though I have some packs in the fridge.
     
  15. keithwms

    keithwms Member

    Messages:
    6,070
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2006
    Location:
    Charlottesvi
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The 3000b doesn't tend to give the rich blacks, but what it delivers is very smooth and lovely, with fairly subtle midtones and highlights for a film that fast. Indeed, fp100b is the best of the bunch for shadows: you can get very rich, deep blacks with it, although the response is still rather slide-like in the sense that it can't handle much subject brightness range. FP400b is very nice too.