GAF Arial film development questions

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by StoneNYC, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    So I have a bunch of rolls if GAF Corporation arial film, I could find NO data on this film and only a bit about the company itself. (At the time I wasn't on APUG) so I did some experimenting using ilfsol 3 (1+9) and seemed to get a good exposure, but I just shot a bunch of hurricane images and I kind of want to know if there is any official data, what developer was originally used and if it's still around, times etc.

    I've been shooting it actually at the 200 ASA mark, I know this doesn't make sense but at the time I was experimenting with the development and didn't realize arial film had different EI for ground shooting and I'm probably pushing the film and not realizing it.

    Any info would be appreciated, thanks!

    Developing 15 feet at a time is a pain, but so much fun to see the result!

    I'm trying to upload an image but it keeps saying "not a valid image file" perhaps I'm just not allowed since I haven't yet chosen to subscribe? I'll keep trying but posting in the mean time.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  2. Alan W

    Alan W Subscriber

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  3. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Nice try, those are MY instructions haha

    He also put them down completely wrong, I made a deal to test and give him instructions and they are wrong anyway, people frustrate me, my name is attached with the wrong info credited ugh, haha

    Thanks though, anyone else??


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  4. Alan W

    Alan W Subscriber

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    I thought it was too much of a coincidence!Good luck.
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    It is probably in my USAF Aerial Photo manual somewhere, but before I go to all of the trouble looking it up, I must tell you that this film is probably much more valuable as a collectors item than as something you would use. Many of these items have begun vanishing as people "try them out". It will probably be pretty foggy. GAF was not known for films that kept. Anscochrome was pretty good as were their B&W offerings as long as they were kept well and used before their expiration date.

    PE
     
  6. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Thanks PE, however I've already developed a few rolls of it, and what's the point of keeping film you will never use? I'll keep the canister and box?

    It's not at ALL fogged, I was shocked the first roll, it's in better shape than my 100' roll of tri-x aero film which was badly fogged, but this stuff, nothing, and the fact that I'm shooting it at its listed ASA and getting good stuff is amazing, it comes out just like the pan f plus I shot side by side for comparison.

    However I haven't had any of it scanned yet, so I don't know the grain (well I a section of it scanned with my 35mm scanner, but a whole image, not yet).

    It's drying right now... See?[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Hope you can see them. But I'm totally winging it here with times etc, would be nice to know the correct ones.

    That link above that the other guy gave to eBay, you can see the scanned image.

    I want to buy another 10 rolls from the guy (hope this post doesn't get me to lose all of them) lol


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  7. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    I am very surprised and happy for you that the film is not fogged. It must have been exceptionally good for keeping and it must have been stored very well. Looks like you have the exposure and process times locked in.

    PE
     
  8. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Well if you think it's correct, that's good enough for me!

    Yea it's all from the same lot so I hope I can snag some more.


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  9. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    The military used several developers for aerial films. D-76 was used for low contrast development, DK-50 for moderate contrast, and a special developer AFD-4 for high contrast. AFD-4 was essentially a phenidone based paper developer. I have the formula if anyone is interested.
     
  10. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Thanks Gerald, so even though it's GAF film they used Kodak developer? Was the GAF film division bought by anyone? I know they still exist but stopped making film about the time mine expires haha.


    ~Stone

    The Important Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  11. AgX

    AgX Member

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    The film division went into oblivion meranwhile, only the roof tiling branch still exists.
     
  12. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    I know PE said its good enough, and he knows a LOT but I'm a perfectionist and would prefer to at least know what GAF recommended for their film, ya know? When I scan these ill know the grain issues better and perhaps be able to adjust better with the original instructions. (unlike Kodak/Agfa/ORWO who included a pamphlet with their films which has helped me with other old films from before my time).

    :smile:


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  13. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

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    I think GAF ceased all photo production in 77 ot 78. The Air Force did use GAF black and white film and paper, but was not well liked, at least where I was stationed. I was not in the recom unit so I never developed any areo GAF areo film, we souped standard GAF film in Kodak Chemistery I do recall seeing some GAF chemeistery around as well. GAF 500 was really grainey and much faster than TriX, I really did not like it. The 100 speed film was good. Air Force tech manuales will have the times, just dont know where you find one.
     
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  15. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    GAF marketed several developers for both film and paper. The film developers were Isodol, Hyfinol, and Normadol. I would assume that one of these was recommended for this film.
     
  16. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    The US military used the same developers for aerial film no matter the manufacturer of the film.
     
  17. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

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    I have few cans of GAF developers around, I think Normadol is there version of D76, at least D76 times seem to work.
     
  18. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    You still have some? It can't possibly be any good can it? I know the film is old or it works really well in ilfsol 3 as far as not having fog, but it's super contrasty which I like but also would like to see what else this can do.

    Side note, I'm also looking for a different 70mm reel, the one I have is from a lab that is loaded by machine so hand loading it I end up kinking it and having issues, one made for 70mm would be better, an APUGer a while ago said he would sell me one but then stopped responding and then I found this one, but it's kind of crap and so anyone have a good reel? Mine looks hand wound so the metal isn't completely even which is why the kinks and track slips happen...[​IMG]

    Also I made a daylight tank contraption but it had light leak and so a 70mm daylight tank would be awesome as well :smile:


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  19. StoneNYC

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    Thanks, that's helpful I'll look up info on that :smile: but I think I'll try the D67 first and compare


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  20. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

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    I will check to see what I have left, might have some Normadal left, I know that have a lot of replensiher left. So far it has mixed well, sealed cans. If I have any left I will post and send you a can or 2.
     
  21. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Oh wow! That's awesome! Then I can develop and compare! Super thanks in advance even just for the gesture.

    Also the ilfsol fixer I had been using didn't have Hardener as far as I could tell and I noticed some scratching and so I picked up some Kodak rapid fixer with hardener and it SEEMED to help, but I was also more careful, think that was the scratching cause?


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  22. Photo Engineer

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    Alright, I have checked the USAF Handbook for Photo Lab Processing (AFM-96-11. In it, it lists films used by the Air Force for all purposes and for aerial use only Kodak and Dupont are listed. GAF is listed for small camera and sheet films. No joy here! Sorry.

    Also, it gives the standard developers to be used. All films must fit a narrow gate for time and temperature in these developers.

    All must be able to use darkroom or field equipment.

    PE
     
  23. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Thanks for looking. What I found most annoying and strange is they come in canisters of 15 feet each like standard Kodak 70mm except NOT in load able canisters, but just on spools, and the spools do NOT fit in 70mm canisters so I STILL have to re-spool them as if they were on 100 feet spools, why didn't they at least fit inside standard canisters... Ugh, I'm sure they are some proprietary GAF product but still silly, at least the bigger spools prevented heavy curling...



    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  24. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Member

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    No Doubt if you hapen to have a USAF Arial Camera they probaly drop right into the magazine...

    Gaf got out of the Photographic buisiness in the mid seventies. They droped products, as I recall our High School Camera club got a closeout deal on a case of Gallon Cans of GAF Acid FIxer, while some of the members were using bulk rolls of GAF film from Freestyle.. I worked at a camera counter after high School, and I recall GAF Colour 110 Film came out with C-22 Process, while every other 110 Film was C-41. They dissappered completly shortly after that.

    A web search for the NSN (AKa NATO Number) on the can gives the news that it is no older than 1963
    FILM,PHOTOGRAPHIC
    (NSN 6750005774637)
    FSG (Federal Supply Group): 67 (Photographic Equipment)
    FSC (Federal Supply Code): 6750 (Photographic Supplies)
    Date NSN Established: 1963001 (January 01, 1963)
    AKGP FILM TYPE AERIAL
    MATL MATERIAL PLASTIC, CELLULOSE ACETATE
    AKGS EMULSION TYPE BLACK AND WHITE
    AKGT REPRODUCTION TYPE NEGATIVE
    AKGW EMULSION SENSITIVITY PANCHROMATIC EXTE
    AKGX RES
     
  25. Photo Engineer

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    Well, from the scant information, the GAF film may not be for USAF use. That is a guesstimate for now.

    Our cannisters and rolls fit our cameras as easily as any other camera. I have some 5" and 9" rolls here AAMOF and they look just like film rolls.

    PE
     
  26. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Wow, I didn't know I could use that number or even what it meant, thanks! Learning a lot!


    ~Stone

    The Important Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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