[Getting] Extreme grain

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Fintan, Nov 14, 2004.

  1. Fintan

    Fintan Member

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    Tri-x is my weapon of choice, but for a project I'm doing I'm looking for extremely "bad" grainy film + developer [and available in 120]

    Can anyone make a suggestion [with links to examples if possible]

    Thanks in advance.

    Fintan
     
  2. rbarker

    rbarker Member

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    I like Delta 3200 when I want grain. Developed normally in DD-X, it has accentuated, but regular, grain, providing a nice texture. I'd assume that if it were "abused" (over-exposure, over-development, hot developer), it might produce more radical effects.

    http://www.rbarkerphoto.com/misc/SFBayAreaMisc/winecask02c.jpg
     
  3. eagleowl

    eagleowl Member

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    If you REALLY want extreme grain,go with the delta 3200 in 35mm format-even a 6x4 print is seriously grainy,and as for an 8x10...:surprised:
     
  4. VoidoidRamone

    VoidoidRamone Subscriber

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    Delta 3200 pushed to 6400 in Rodinal 1:50... I've never tried it, but I'm sure that it's super grainy. Even Delta 3200 shot at box speed in Rodinal 1:25 is very grainy.
    -Grant
     
  5. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Delta 3200 exposed at 2000, then stand-developed in half-strength FX-2. Agitate for one minute, leave for 20, agitate 30 seconds, stop (or water wash) after 45 minutes. Extremely compensating, extremely grainy, will give printable negatives from any film at just about any speed.

    An by the way, it gives one to two stops increased sensitivity :smile:
     
  6. Cheryl Jacobs

    Cheryl Jacobs Member

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    If you're after "bad" grain, I'd rather go with Tri-X pushed to the extreme. Delta 3200 is very grainy but is extremely even and has a good structure. Tri-X pushed about seven stops should do the trick. :wink: I've maxed out at EI 12,800 in ID-11.
     
  7. jtsatterlee

    jtsatterlee Member

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  8. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Tri-X in Dektol is a pretty classic way of producing big grain. Hunt around on the net and you should find examples and recommended dilutions.

    Tri-X in ABC pyro is grainy, but with beautiful highlights and very sharp. If you're shooting 6x6 or 645 and using a condensor enlarger the grain should stand out. 6x7 and larger with a diffusion enlarger and it might not be grainy enough for your tastes.
     
  9. 127

    127 Member

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    Try reloading delta 3200 into a Pentax 110! Recode the cassete for 400, meter off something light (skin), and dev for 800-1000.

    Ian
     
  10. kchittenden

    kchittenden Member

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    You can also use reticulation to get grain. The process is as follows:

    Develop Film Normally.

    Rinse in stop bath 1 minute at 140-150 degrees F.

    Immerse film in cold water (below 40 degrees) for 1 minute.

    Immerse in hot water 180 degress for 1 minute.

    Fix with hardening fixer.

    Wash film 20 minutes.

    Do not use photo flo and do not squeege - the film emulsion is very soft.

    For added effect - freeze the film.

    Kevin
     
  11. Fintan

    Fintan Member

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    as ever, great advice. Thank you everyone
     
  12. modafoto

    modafoto Subscriber

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    Try with Delta 3200 @ ISO 25000 developed in Rodinal 1+25 for 30-35 minutes. EXTREMELY COARSE GRAIN (but nice for this effect)

    Morten
     
  13. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    Push TriX with Rodinal 1+25

    A 2 or 3 stop pushing is possible, and you'll get very nice grain from it.

    Reticulation is another possibility, or a grain screen for your enlarger to exagerate the grain
     
  14. Woolliscroft

    Woolliscroft Member

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    There used to be a wonderful very high speed film called Kodak recording film. I have no idea if it is still made, but if so it produced amazing grain. You could rate it at virtually any speed you liked, certainly up to 6400 ISO and could then push dev it with Pattersons' Acuspeed. Pattersons specifically advised against this as the developer fogged the film somewhat, but in fact the combination worked wonderfully for soft light close up portraits because the fogging counteracted the contrast increase from the push developing.

    If you really cooked the film in the dev for as long as you could remain interested, it produced grain like golf balls which added atmosphere and totally removed any skin blemishes. The latter effect was helped by the fact that the film had extended red sensitivity and so anyway tended to give porcelain skin to virtually any vaguely white person. The down side was that it also tended to produce white lips, which had to be avoided by using grey lipstick.

    Another possible trick is to develop film in paper developer, which also gives a very dramatic stark contrast.

    David.
     
  15. Dorothy Blum Cooper

    Dorothy Blum Cooper Member

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    Tri-x to 1600 with Acufine. While the Acufine will knock some of the grain down (not alot) it's still quite cool. Just an option.
     
  16. FilmIs4Ever

    FilmIs4Ever Member

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    How is this accomplished? I'd love to be able to spool 135 to 110 size, but aren't there sprocket holes that you need to add? I believe 110 is 16mm film with different perforations, no?

    Regards.
    ~Karl Borowski
     
  17. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    For extreme grain try Kodak D163

    My first attempt at roll film was FP3 in a Yashica, summer of 69 :smile: local photostore sold me Koak's Universal Developer D163. Great negs worst grain and sharpest I've ever seen
     
  18. Spaceman

    Spaceman Member

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    Why use 120 if you want extreme grain?
     
  19. Helen B

    Helen B Member

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    Fintan,

    I guess that the choice between all these excellent suggestions is going to hang on the tonality you want. Do you want the 'pushed' look or a softer tonality? I'd go for a film/dev combination that gives inherently high graininess without a push - so Ian Grant's suggestion of D 163 (or maybe Ilford PQ Universal) and Ole's FX-2 stand process with Delta 3200 (not so much as push, more a true speed increase) would be my choices. Delta 3200 is the grainiest film I've used recently. When I tested it with Barry Thornton's DiXactol I got very high graininess (objectionably overwhelming, in my opinion) and extreme overexposure latitude, with a speed of around 1000 based on shadow detail.

    Nobody's mentioned overexposure: just one more way of getting higher graininess with silver-image negative film, and another reason to prefer a non-push process.

    Another way that springs to mind because I tried it: use outdated Agfa 400, rated well below 400. Agfa 400 seems to age badly in comparison to HP5 and Tri-X, or maybe it was just the stuff I tried.

    2475 recording film hasn't been around for some time, unfortunately. It was only available in 35 mm to my knowledge. 2479 recording film is still listed by Kodak, but only through a government contract and not in 120. The 120 equivalent of 2475 was Royal-X, a 1250 box-speed film. I threw out all but one of my last rolls of that in a move in '97 - it was a favourite of mine for use at night in an Autorange 820 before Delta 3200 became available. If you can find some usable Royal-X you've got grain.

    'The down side was that it also tended to produce white lips, which had to be avoided by using grey lipstick.' Good news! I've heard that M·A·C have both 12½% and 18% gray lipstick in their spring 2005 collection, after sucessful lobbying by liberal APUG members.

    Best,
    Helen
     
  20. 127

    127 Member

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    re:respooling 110.

    It depends on the camera. 110 has a single perforation per frame, and a mechanism in the camera catches this and stops it winding too far. However if thats ALL it does, then the only problem of missing the perforation is that you and up with the images a little less evenly spaced. Unfortunatly some cameras use the hole to cock the shutter and hence won't fire unless the perf is there.

    Most of the better cameras (particularly the pentax) work fine with un-perfed film. Two strokes on the pentax lever wind and the film is correctly advanced.

    There's a neat film cutter called a zip-slit which cuts 35mm down to 16mm unperfed. Cutting open the plastic canisters is a bit fun, and then you just need to wind it all up, and put it in the can.

    You can dev in a Jobo with a 1502 spiral if you can find them - I think I got the very last one from Jessops in the UK (honest - I ordered 4 from their website, but they could only find 1).

    A web search will turn up more details info...

    Ian