Give me your opinion with My shopping cart please

Discussion in 'Darkroom Equipment' started by Man from moon, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. Man from moon

    Man from moon Member

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  2. tim k

    tim k Member

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    No,
    I guess,
    Ok,
    Ok.
     
  3. jakyamuni

    jakyamuni Member

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    If you're doing black and white, why are you trying it with C41? C41 is a color process, less forgiving than a true black and white, and more difficult to print through. (I suppose you can, but the orange cast of color film- even c41 B/w film makes printing difficult).
     
  4. Man from moon

    Man from moon Member

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    thank you tim :smile:



    thank you

    Because I am a newbie
    I would like to experience c-41 first , he is so easy for me
    And in the future I will try another Chemicals like id11 or d76 for my ilford delta 400 and hp5 ,But I find some difficulty with mixing and Steps:smile:
     
  5. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    I started with glass thermometer and switched to a dial type. They both work but the issue is the glass kind respond so slowly. I had to add cold water or warm water to adjust, then wait for a minute or two for reading and make further adjustments. It was very frustrating. The metal kind react almost immediately. It works much better for me.

    For developers, I use 1/2 gallon regular tank and a bunch of 250cc bottles. Mix up a gallon, and pour into 1/2 gallon. The remaining goes into smaller ones. I use smaller ones first. When they are all gone, I pour 1/2 into smaller ones. That way, no part of developer is exposed to air. Works fine for me. You can buy bottles cheaply at Amazon.

    By the way, BW processes are far more forgiving than C41 and chemicals are easy to obtain. It's up to you but if I were you, I'd go for BW processing, not C41.
     
  6. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    1. definitly no, recycled water bottles and pop bottles work better and are free(after drinking contents).
    2. no, but not necessary for film developing. Loading film into reel and tank is done in total darkness. Once loaded and lid in place developing is performed in normal light
    3. yes, but dial type respond quicker and are easier to read.
    4. Yes, but you can buy a double tank for that price, or a good stainless set for less. Stainless tanks come up to temp faster, use less chemistry. Plastic holds temps better , use more chems.
     
  7. Luseboy

    Luseboy Member

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    If i were you, i'd stay away from trying to do c-41 at home. It's really nothing to do for fun. Besides that, the film is low-quality at best, and designed to be printed in a 1-hour photo lab. A student in a beginner photography class that i was a teachers assistant for last semester accidentally shot 4 rolls of the stuff and got just the negatives made. I helped her print them in our B&W darkroom at school, and it was a huge pain to print them. The contrast was all wacky, they had a bad tonal range, and they were low-quality. The prints turned out pretty bad, not to mention boring, with a short tonal range and bad contrast. Besides, have you seen the prices for c-41 processing kits? Compare that to a really nice set of the (three) chemicals you need for B&W, and i think you'll be surprised to find that you'll get much better results with much less money.
    -Austin
     
  8. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    The Ilford XP2 is an excellent C41 black and white film that prints very easily in a home darkroom - there is no orange mask. The Kodak version of that type of film prints best in a commercial colour lab environment.

    This is an example of XP2 (scanned from a negative, but it prints well):

    That being said, I too would recommend standard black and white film developed in standard black and white chemistry.
     

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  9. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Regular black and white film is about a million times easier to develop at home than C-41.
     
  10. Luseboy

    Luseboy Member

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    interesting. Well i guess i am only familiar with the kodak so that makes sense as to why i don't like it. But if you're doing all B&W at home, why do c41, when it's exponentially easier, cheaper, and will ultimately print better, and be more archival, and then you don't have to worry so much about getting rid of the chemicals after you're done. Also B&W chemicals are much more readily available, and I do believe they will last longer. To me it just does not seem like a good idea to start out with c-41. I do understand the idea of starting with something hard to get you ready to do something easier, it works for the military, but not in photography. You won't see anyone getting good results if they start out using an 8x10 camera, before getting the building blocks down with a 35mm camera :smile:. Do what you wish, but it just makes so much sense to do traditional B&W.
     
  11. tomalophicon

    tomalophicon Member

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    Big cameras were all that people had in the old days :confused:
     
  12. chioque

    chioque Member

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    For (iv), I would suggest you buy the 2 reels version, in the event you need to develop 2 rolls at the same time. Also you can also use it to develop 120 roll film, if you move up to medium format, which you will, if you hang around here for any length of time :smile:
     
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  13. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    I'll be a rebel and state that developing C41 films is much easier than developing black and white. There are no real variables, all is standard process. All you have to do is keep the temperature right. I've done it for at least a hundred rolls now, and it's dead easy to do C41 at home. I highly recommend the Rollei kits.

    - Thomas
     
  14. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    Hi,

    The red light is good for nothing with color printing, or for any processing of color films or standard (i.e. panchromatic) black and white films. Save five bucks and pass on it unless you are doing black and white printing. It is for black and white printing only, or working with orthochromatic films (and even then, I would filter it through a bona fide red filter before trusting the manufacturer's coating on the bulb).

    I would get a better thermometer (Paterson, about $30) and offset the cost by getting a used stainless steel tank and reels, and by using juice bottles for your chemicals (PETE plastic in useful sizes, like 16/32 oz. or 500mL/1L). I also wouldn't bother getting a tank that will not hold at least two rolls of 35mm film. I can count on one hand the times that I have had only one roll of 35mm to develop, and had to develop it NOW, before waiting for another roll to develop along with it.

    As for getting started, a Rollei or Photographer's Formulary color neg processing kit is a good idea IMO. But they are very expensive. Once you have the process down and are constantly developing film, you can switch to much cheaper bulk chemicals.

    B/W is easier in some ways and C-41 is easier in some ways. I would say b/w is easier for a rank beginner with no experience ever processing film. But for someone who already knows how to process seamlessly, I think C-41 is easier. It's a standardized process, and there are only four chemicals and two short washes (all of which are mixed as working solutions from the very beginning). With black and white, I use five chemicals (all but the stop bath and fixer have to be made into working solutions before the developing session), two short washes, and one full wash...and I pay nearly just as much attention to keeping a constant temperature as I do with color.
     
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  15. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

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    #1: No they are hard to clean and will leak, believe me I learned the hard way.
    #2: The light is no good for color.
    #3: The glass is fine but comes around a bit slow and is subject to breaking, a dial is better.
    #4: Nothing wrong with that tank, should work perfectly fine.

    Ask more questions....

    Curt
     
  16. Man from moon

    Man from moon Member

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    Thanks to all
    Now, I have a lot of b&w c-41 films
    and
    There is no good lab in my village where I live

    in the Future

    I Will learn How do I deal with Chemistry like id-11 , Rapid Fixer and Ilfostop Stop Bath for my ilford films

    But I find some difficulty

    Especially in the instructions Manual , steps for maxing , Required temperature

    And my English is very bad :D
     
  17. mouren

    mouren Member

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    I haven't done any C41 development, but I have heard the color process is more temperature sensitive. I would buy a color thermometer, which has higher degree of accuracy. I don't think they comes in dial forms.

    The air-vac bottle - I have it and love it. I don't have a leak yet. I use one bottle for one type of chemical/developer, so, haven't had problem cleaning. I don't see how it would be hard to clean, unless you are trying to use one that had fixer in it for developer. For that, you can always get the blue cleaner from Freestyle, which should clean pretty much anything off.

    Red light - no point at all, unless printing with certain paper. Get a changing bag instead.

    Patterson Reel - Yes, get a 2 reel tank, just in case you want to do 120 or when you start shooting more, you would appreciate the ability to develop more than 1 film at a time. I started on plastic tanks, they are easier to load than stainless steel, however, for me, are harder to clean. I love my stainless steel tanks, but loading film does take a bit of learning.
     
  18. puptent

    puptent Member

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    I've been experimenting with B and W C-41 film. I bought 5 rolls each of Kodak and Ilford. I probably won't stay with it. I agree that the Ilford is a little easier to print. I'd recommend starting out with the basics, D-76, Dektol, single grade paper, etc. to get started. The darkroom process seems like some easy steps, just follow the cookbook, and it is, but after the simple, it's all nuance. That has to be developed (hee-hee) with practice and experimentation, and reading books, and talking to others. BTW, I prefer stainless reels and tanks, they're what I learned with. And, for short term storage and immediate use, I like the Mt. Dew green plastic bottles with the large opening.