gold toner question

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Perikles, May 16, 2005.

  1. Perikles

    Perikles Member

    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Hello,
    I noticed that Nelson's gold toner should be used - according to instructions - at a temperature of about 40 ° C. I have some problems in keeping so hot my developing tray. Anyone has any experience about using such toner? Does it works also at lower temperatures?
    Any information much appreciated :smile:
    Warm regards
    Antonio
     
  2. andrewfrith

    andrewfrith Subscriber

    Messages:
    99
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2003
    Location:
    Australia
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I mixed it up and have only used it once so far. I tried it on Azo and I definitely was'nt at 40c, maybe 30c or so. It did shift it to a very warm red/brown tone after 10mins or so. I used the recipe on the formulas page on unblinkingeye.com. The reason i tried Azo was cos Nelsons Gold was supposed to be good for warm tones on chloride paper. I have'nt tried it on anything else yet, although i was wondering if it might work with Salt prints or Albumen prints too perhaps.
     
  3. ann

    ann Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,923
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2002
    Shooter:
    35mm
    it can work at room temp, but it will take a much longer time.

    We place a tray with the toner in another larger tray with hot water.

    be sure you fix after toning with a fixer that contains a hardener as the toner is hard on the paper.
     
  4. donbga

    donbga Member

    Messages:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    One method to use is to place an electric heating pad under the toner tray. Be sure to have the pad plugged into a ground fault outlet.

    Don Bryant
     
  5. donbga

    donbga Member

    Messages:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    Andrew,

    That's an interesting question! I've not made albumen prints but from most of the modern ones I've seen, the prints are very warm toned to begin with, but the idea is interesting.

    Don Bryant
     
  6. Perikles

    Perikles Member

    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Shooter:
    35mm
    thank you for the answers. I wanted to try it with centennial pop...I will see if I can use an electric dish warmer
     
  7. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Messages:
    3,676
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Willamette V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I read one fellow's post where in he says he is happy using it at
    room temperature as long as he has an hour or so's time. I would
    suppose he gives the print or prints an agitation now and then.

    I've been checking out REPTILE HEAT PADS. I think they may
    be just the ticket for Nelson's or any other up to 100F
    need. Dan
     
  8. Digidurst

    Digidurst Subscriber

    Messages:
    629
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Location:
    SC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'm just curious but does this high temp requirement apply to ALL gold toners or just Nelson's formula?
     
  9. Lee Shively

    Lee Shively Member

    Messages:
    1,325
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Location:
    Louisiana, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Even at high temp, Nelson's is slow. It takes about 20 minutes to fully tone the papers I've used--mostly Ilford MG Warmtone.

    I use the tray-within-a-tray of hot water and change out the hot water often.
     
  10. Perikles

    Perikles Member

    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Shooter:
    35mm
    i guess nelson GT is slow on MGW because ilford mgw is slow with many toners. I am wrong?
    as far as i know the temperature requirement applies only to nelson formula.
    Anyway, saturday I will try with an electric dish warmer, I dont know where to find reptile heating pads, and I dont want to keep prints in it for 1 h :smile:
     
  11. MikeK

    MikeK Member

    Messages:
    557
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2003
    Location:
    Walnut Creek
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Nelson Gold Toner can give warm images and I do not know if that is the toner you want to use with Centennial POP. The image color of POP before toning is pronounced brown and this toner just may add to the alread warm color. If you want to cool the image down you should check the toners at Chicago Albumen works http://www.albumenworks.com/toning.html

    Mike
     
  12. Perikles

    Perikles Member

    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Till now I used the tetenal gold toner, giving first red tones, then blue ones.
    Are you sure Nelson GT is warming even with prolonged immersion of the print in it?
    Thank you
    P.
     
  13. MikeK

    MikeK Member

    Messages:
    557
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2003
    Location:
    Walnut Creek
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Did you get those colors with Centennial POP?

    I am not an expert in Gold Toning, but my Nelson GT Kit gave me brown tones using Forte WT paper and wicked/sickly brown color when used with POP. It might be because the Nelson Toner is a combination of Gold and Silver Chloride, whereas most POP toners only contain Gold Chloride.

    The Photo Formulary GP Toner definitely cooled my POP images down.

    Would be interested in how your POP images come out

    Mike
     
  14. Lee Shively

    Lee Shively Member

    Messages:
    1,325
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Location:
    Louisiana, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes, Nelson's does give a warm tone, at least with all the enlarging papers I've used. I've never used POP--don't know how that would respond. Actually the longer it's immersed, the warmer the papers I've used have become. It's really a beautiful look, if that's what you're after.
     
  15. Perikles

    Perikles Member

    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Shooter:
    35mm
    yep, with tetenal GT, i get first red, then brown, then a colder tone. To get the colder tone i need something like 5 minutes. I have not tried nelson with pop yet..
    maybe I will try mixing my own gold toner to see if I will get colder images
     
  16. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Messages:
    3,676
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Willamette V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Reptile supplies are found at pet supply stores. Not much heat pad
    selection in my area; ditto eBay. But via the WWW ... . Dan
     
  17. Perikles

    Perikles Member

    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Shooter:
    35mm
    checking the dishwarmer now :wink:
     
  18. Phillip P. Dimor

    Phillip P. Dimor Member

    Messages:
    1,063
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Location:
    Westport, MA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Be careful with placing weight on an electric heating pads, many fires have been accidentally started this way. As in leaving a heavy tray with water on top of a heating pad on 'high' unattended. Just a warning, you know? Although reptile heating pads very well might be made for supporting weight.

    I use a submersible aquarium heater in a rubbermaid filled with water, and then place the tray inside the water-filled rubbermaid.

    A submersible heater and thermostat are nice things to have, I've a Unicolor developer tempering tank which is strikingly similar to the Jobo one.
     
  19. Perikles

    Perikles Member

    Messages:
    34
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Shooter:
    35mm
    thanks Philip :smile: My dishwarmer is old and robust and I place over it no more than a plastic tray with 1 lt of liquid, I guess it's quite safe. But if I can find reptile pads or aquarium heaters I will try them.
    My best regards
     
  20. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Messages:
    3,676
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Willamette V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format