Got my 90mm F8 super angulon, but few questions

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by highpeak, Jul 26, 2005.

  1. highpeak

    highpeak Member

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    I was very happy after I got this lens, however, after a closer examination, I found a few scratches (tiny, have to shine light on it to see, otherwise doesn't visible), and slight haze on both ends of the lens. I think the haze is inside of the lens. So, I started worry, and then I found the shutter is not copal shutter as the seller mentioned, it's a synchro-compur shutter! what a bum.

    My question is:
    How a compur shutter compare to copal shutter? Can they use the same lens board?

    If I decide to keep the lens, where to find a place in new york area to get rid of the haze?

    and I am pretty sure it's single coated, right?

    Thank you in advance.
     
  2. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    The scratches, haze, and compur shutter wouldn't be a problem for me. The haze could probably be cleaned by unscrewing both the front and rear elements if you are anal about it. You probably will never see any detrimental effects on a print.
     
  3. Bob F.

    Bob F. Member

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    I'm not an expert in this but from reading others who are... The scratches are not a problem. The haze I am less sure about, depends what and where it is I guess. IIRC, Schneider lenses say "MC" or "Multicoated" if they are. If not so marked, it's single coated (or uncoated if old enough). The Schneider web site will tell you how old the lens is from the serial number (http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/age_of_lenses/).

    Shutters: Copal/compur some people prefer one over t'other but I don't think it really matters. Size: from the Schneider site, single coated lenses were in either #0 or #1 size shutters, MC are all in #1 size. Shutter sizes are the same for any shutter (the actual hole sizes are on the SK Grimes site somewhere).


    Cheers, Bob.
     
  4. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    My 90/8 Super Angulon is a very nice lens, and I use it quite often on 5x7"! Mine is single-coated.

    Some early 90/8 Super Angulons were in 00 Compur shutters - I know, because I have one. They then found that the shutter was too weak for the size of the lens, and changed to size 0. They were never in #1, but in the 0+1 which is a tube length specification for a #0 shutter.

    Shutter sizes for 0 and 1 are the same, other sizes are a bit more variable.
     
  5. Graeme Hird

    Graeme Hird Member

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    I think you got stiffed - if it was described as being in a Copal, it would have been a later model than the ones found in Synchro Compur shutters. In my book, that is deceptive selling and you should ask for your money back. The haze is a worry too.

    I have one of those 90mm SA lenses in the Synchro Compur shutter. It performed very well until the shutter fell to pieces - an incredibly sharp lens. I could not get another shutter for it, so it sits in my spare room doing nothing these days.
     
  6. Sparky

    Sparky Member

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    Steve - checked out your website - yes, lovely tonailites - but you MIGHT want to consider changing the spelling of "PENILE" (meaning penis) colony to PENAL.

    thanks.
     
  7. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    At least one of the early 90mm S/As used a shutter size called "0+1". The same is true of the 121mm S/A.

    Ole - by 'tube' do you mean the lens spacing is different? If that's the case, then the OP might have more trouble than he thought. No?
     
  8. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes.

    I'm at work now and can't check my library for a few weeks, but that might be true. On the other hand it is quite possible that the 0+1 became the standard #0, so I'll have to check the literature on this.

    Graemes shutter which "fell to pieces" sounds like it could be a #00, that's why they changed to 0+1... Graeme, fiddly little thing you could barely get a finger on, deep under the conical front?

    There are two ways to get these repaired: S.K. Grimes will mount in a new shutter, making whatever adapters are necessary. Schneider will say "this lens is a very delicate instrument which requires very careful alignment that only we can do. The shutter is long oput of production and there are no spares available". A full Schneider repair will cost almost as much as a new lens, and often more than another used lens.

    BTW, that's what Schneider told me when I inquired about a replacement part for the shutter on my 121/8 SA, which only opens up to f:10. I even quoted the part number that should be replaced!
     
  9. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I would first clean both ends of each lens cell with a microfiber cloth and see if that takes care of the haze. If not, and the haze is inside the cell, then you would have to send it to someone who can disassemble and clean it, if it is serious enough to worry about (which it may or may not be).

    If you've got a Synchro-Compur 0 shutter, that should be fine, and it will fit in a Copal 0 lensboard. If you have the 00 shutter, it might be better to send it back.

    I would send it to S. K. Grimes or Frank Marshman if it needs repair. I'm not terribly enthusiastic about any of the shops in New York for LF repairs, though in theory they shouldn't be difficult.

    I can take a look at it if you want. If I remember correctly, you work at CCNY? I live at 125th and Riverside. PM me if you want to drop by.
     
  10. bobfowler

    bobfowler Subscriber

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    I may be in the minority here, but I think that the build quality of the Synchro Compur is better than the Copal. The downside is the availabilty of new parts. On the bright side, most shutter problems are caused by dirt and a simple cleaning is all they usually need. The one possible exception is if the shutter has seen a lot of hard use and the slow speeds escapement is shot. Still, it takes a long time and a lot of abuse to kill a Synchro Compur.
     
  11. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    Thanks Ole. I did contact SK Grimes and their estimate to put the proper shutter on my 121 s/a was more than I see the lens and shutter sell for in good used condition. I wonder if this isn't just the trend; lenses cheaper than repair labor. Dunno.
     
  12. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    JJ--do you know what exactly is wrong with the shutter? If the gears aren't actually worn or broken, Synchro-Compur shutters are very easy to clean.

    They are in general made of all metal parts, so you can open it up, flush it with solvent like naphtha, and not worry about messing up anything. In general they run dry, but a drop of light machine oil in the slow speed retard mechanism can help, and some heavier grease like lithium grease on the channels in the speed setting dial might make changing speeds a little smoother.

    There are some good instructions with illustrations here--

    http://daniel.mitchell.name/cameras/index.html

    You can often get away with less disassembly than the instructions describe. The instructions for the Compur Rapid shutter on this page and a little intuition will get you through a variety of Compur shutters.
     
  13. Bob F.

    Bob F. Member

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    "hey were never in #1, but in the 0+1 which is a tube length specification for a #0 shutter."
    Thanks for that Ole - I misunderstood what 0+1 meant (never came across that designation before).

    Cheers, Bob.
     
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  15. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    I got my 121 S/A without a shutter, David. It was mounted in an incomplete broken (no F-stop part) proprietary Sinar thing. The glass is terrific. I couldn't pass up the 'good deal'. So there it sits. :sad:
     
  16. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Well, that would be harder to repair!
     
  17. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    No, easier! It just needs mounting in a shutter, and the cell spacing should be correct in the Sinar thingy. :smile:
     
  18. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    Gosh, Ole, you know how big, loud and clumsy (and EXPENSIVE) those Sinar shutters are? No way will I ever, ever use one in the field.
     
  19. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I meant a proper shutter - a Syncro-Compur of course!
     
  20. highpeak

    highpeak Member

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    Thanks for the replies. I cleaned the lens, the haze is definitely inside. The shutter seems to be a #0, and works fine. I will bring the lens to David, let him take a look first. In the mean time, I think I will ask for some money back from the seller.
     
  21. Graeme Hird

    Graeme Hird Member

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    Ole, yes it was the 00 shutter. I enquired about getting it put into a Copal through SK Grimes but it turned out that it would have cost me as much as getting a "new" used SA 90.

    So there it sits ... :sad:
     
  22. bobfowler

    bobfowler Subscriber

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    My 65mm f/8 Super Angulon is in a #00 Synchro Compur. The shutter was running a bit slow, so I sent it off to Carol (Flutot) Miller for a CLA. It now runs like a champ! You may want to drop her a note with a description of your problem (she's a member here)... she just might be able to fix it.
     
  23. mikewhi

    mikewhi Member

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    I think I'm in the minority here. I used to own a 90mm SA in a Japanese shutter. I hated this lens. I could not get a sharp image to save my life. Any picture I took with it, I could not enlarge and even contact prints were not that sharp. It was as contrasty as it was sharp. Yes, it was coated, I think multi-coated. I sold it as soon as I could. I have many other lenses and all of them are better lenses.

    When you use it, take a real close and honest look to see just how sharp it is.

    -Mike
     
  24. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Mine's pretty good--1970s single coated version. You might just have had a dog, Mike, or maybe it had been disassembled and not recollimated properly, or maybe you were missing a spacer ring.
     
  25. ronlamarsh

    ronlamarsh Member

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    90mm SA

    I have one of these in a compur 00( I asssume as the mounting hole diameter is 27mm can anyone confirm?) I bought it for $95 from a local camera shop that got it on an estate sale. They didn't want to bother with having it checked out so they sold it "as is". I sent it to SK Grimes, they cla'd it and repaired the broken case.The glass is mint and its sharp as a tack, or maybe sharper, the shutter works fine but I would rather have it have a"view option" than focusing using the bulb setting and locking cable release. Can anyone confirm the compur 00 question?
     
  26. Graeme Hird

    Graeme Hird Member

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    Mine now runs about as slow as possible - I ripped the shutter mechanism out of the shutter so it now functions as a lens in a barrel. It is impossible to fix after my modifications.

    One day I'll get around to getting a "new" shutter for it, or I'll just sell it as is. Pity, because it was one of the sharpest lenses I've ever had (Linhof stamped and all ....).