Harman Cooltone Developer : A Reply

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Simon R Galley, Nov 20, 2007.

  1. Simon R Galley

    Simon R Galley Subscriber

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    Dear All,

    I have obviously been checking the APUG website regarding this product.
    I have also received some pm's regarding this product.

    Firstly, the product will not be manufactured again due to insufficient sales, but significant stock does remain in the supply chain and to those who use and like the product I hope you are able to purchase some stock.

    I would like to assure Apug members that sales levels of our HARMAN Warmtone Chemistry are viable on-going and sales of our recently introduced Selenium toner have exceeded our expectations.

    We are very sad that we did not achieve a viable level of sales and that the Cooltone product has had to be withdrawn, we are obviously aware that therefore we have upset customers who have chosen HARMAN Cooltone Developer as their paper developer of choice, to those customers we offer our sincere apologies.

    I can share with you that today the Board of HARMAN technology Limited discussed the possibility of putting the formulation of this product into the public domain. I have to tell you that whilst they agreed this would be the best solution ( for our customers ) they were unable to do this as one of the chemicals used in the manufacture is a proprietry chemical manufactured by HARMAN technology Limited and is therefore confidential. Once again our sincere apologies.

    Simon.

    ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
     
  2. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

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    Sorry to see it go, but thank you for your open reply.

    Regards,
     
  3. jovo

    jovo Membership Council Council

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    Thanks for the information, Simon. It's noteworthy, especially in light of the ongoing thread about Kodak and it's discontinued products, that Ilford demonstrates the courage to come here and offer a straightforward statement that includes reasons, and regrets. Were Kodak so disposed to do likewise , I suspect regard for that company would be much more positive.
     
  4. Trevor Crone

    Trevor Crone Member

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    Thank you for your open reply Simon. Indeed like others here I too am very sorry to see it go (down to my last 2 litres).

    However being the old cynic that I am. Was the product withdrawn because it was actually making a loss or was the profit margin not to the companies expectation. Only I note Tetenel still offer both of their cold tone developers, Eukobrom and Dokumol, so I assume there's a healthy market for cold tone developer?

    Regards,
    Trevor.
     
  5. Simon R Galley

    Simon R Galley Subscriber

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    If it had made a profit, any profit it would have been kept

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
     
  6. Keith Tapscott.

    Keith Tapscott. Member

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    Clayton Ultra Coldtone Print Developer.

    Clayton Ultra Coldtone Print Developer should make an ideal substitute for the Ilford Cooltone product. It is a pity that this developer is not available in the UK.
    I am hoping that Silverprint and/or Retrophotographic would consider stocking the Clayton products.
     
  7. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council Council

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    I understand with what you say -- if it isn't profitable discontinue it, that's the businessman's way.

    But we who are in it for the art cannot live that way. We will find a way to produce the tones in our prints we require. The lack of HARMAN technology's Cooltone developer is only an inconvenience, not a disaster.
     
  8. gr82bart

    gr82bart Subscriber

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    Then let's also make sure Fuji does the same, shall we, before we continue to single out Kodak? Again.

    Anyone see the Fuji rep here yet? Maybe Fuji can tell us why they were so quick to leave the specialty film markets years before digital while Kodak stayed on. For what what little thanks, it appears.

    Regards, Art.
     
  9. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Why does this have to go on and on and on and on and on?

    This is an Ilford announcement, for crying out loud. What's Kodak and Fuji have to do with anything?

    - Thomas
     
  10. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    Good point about the Fuji rep. As someone relatively new to the film market so with little knowledge of past history but a desire to be informed, what were the speciality film markets that Fuji left but Kodak continued with?

    Thanks

    pentaxuser
     
  11. gr82bart

    gr82bart Subscriber

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    Beats me. I didn't bring it up.

    Regards, Art.
     
  12. blaze-on

    blaze-on Member

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    Just keep the warmtone going Simon..hopefully sales are good there...if it ever falls short, warn us first!
     
  13. Alex Bishop-Thorpe

    Alex Bishop-Thorpe Member

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    I'm off to town today to pick up Paper and Developer for my new, mostly completed, darkroom. If they have a bottle of cooltone I'll give it a whirl, but what I've seen of warmtone appeals to me more, and I suppose it's the same to others also. Thank you for considering the public domain though, it seems like a logical way of going about product discontinuance.
     
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  15. Sanjay Sen

    Sanjay Sen Member

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    Thanks for the explanation, Simon. It is much appreciated.

    It's quite simple, really: if the product didn't sell well enough to make any profits, it is because we didn't buy enough of it to make it viable for Harman/Ilford to continue making it. Now if we continue buying and using the other products that they still have, it would be one way to ensure they will still be produced.


    Best wishes,
    Sanjay
     
  16. argus

    argus Member

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    Hello Simon,

    could you inform us on the longelivety of the developer in frozen condition? I am very fond of the developer (for specific use) and plan to stock a few bottles for future use.

    @Sanjay Sen
    In the short lifespan of the cooltone developer, I doubt that some of us have bought and used more than 5 bottles. My usecount got up to 4.
    It's not because there's a new product on the market that everyone has to switch use it! But that's a discussion that has not to be made in this thread, IMHO.

    Thanks in advance,
    Geert
     
  17. Martin Reed

    Martin Reed Advertiser Advertiser

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    We're (Silverprint) having a look at Clayton, but Los Angeles is a long way from the UK for chemical products - keep you posted.
     
  18. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    Simon, thankyou for being upfront and open.

    Martin, thankyou for your comment too.
     
  19. Simon R Galley

    Simon R Galley Subscriber

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    Dear Geert,

    Our tech service recommend NOT to freeze the product at all:

    Keep in a cool place, with the least variation in temperature away from direct sunlight. Do not open until needed, keep the seal in place.

    Tech service say it should be OK for 18 th 24 months although the activity of the product will reduce in that period.

    Kind Regards

    Simon. ILFORD photo / Harman technology Limited ;
     
  20. John Simmons

    John Simmons Member

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    Clayton Ultra Cold Tone developer is my experience does not produce the same blue blacks on Ilford's Warmtone Paper....nothing I have tested does...including mixing my own. This developer seems to give the same tones as Dektol. It is a great developer...just don't expect ultra cold tones. You will get colder tones by using lpd 1:1 or edwal ultra black...in my opinion.
     
  21. argus

    argus Member

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    Thanks a lot for inquiring, Simon.

    Greetings,
    G
     
  22. eclarke

    eclarke Member

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    This will cool down the Warmtone and produces a very nice look, selenium toned (unfortunately in KRST, Sorry Simon..the Ilford selenium makes a nice brown color).

    Water (125 degrees F) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 750 ml
    Metol . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.2 g
    Sodium Sulfite (Anhydrous) . . . . . . . . . 50 g
    Hydroquinone . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 g
    Sodium Carbonate (Anhydrous) . . . . . 80 g
    Glycin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 g
    Benzotriazole 1% solution....................15cc
    Cold Water to make . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 liter


    Evan Clarke
     
  23. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

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    Simon
    I seem to have solved my own problem by finding enough to last my remaining 30 years (I'm 64). I'm hopeful it will keep as a batch diluted last February had not discoloured and is still working just fine.

    In conjunction with MGWT it was the cheapest way to make a pseudo gold-toned print.

    About the same time my children told me I could buy one more car before they take my license away and put my cameras on e-bay -so I bought a Lexus.
    Mark
     
  24. Simon R Galley

    Simon R Galley Subscriber

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    Dear Mark,

    Good for you...I hope it was the biggest Lexus you could find !!!!!

    Simon.
     
  25. Paul.

    Paul. Member

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    I can see Simons problem, the developer lasts for ever, no wonder no one baught a lot of it.
    I am still useing the 1 litre I had from the factory tour in Feb. Poured back into a sealed bottle after each print session it has proved very frugal in use, I have only changed it for shames sake after useing it for a month or more. Has anyone actualy used it to exhaustion and how long did it take?

    Regards Paul.
     
  26. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

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    I originally bought it because of the great work Mr. John Simmons got from the warm toned paper.

    Then I found it lasted forever and have used it for my darkroom classes.

    Who would have thought that making a quality product would put itself out of a job? Grrr. :smile: