Has anyone done a B/W reversal for transparency?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by dwdmguy, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. dwdmguy

    dwdmguy Member

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    I use a JOBO processor and I'm wondering if anyone has made a negative a positive transparent slide at home? i.e., a dr5. processes.

    I'd like to try and continue to fine tune. There is one lab in Cali that will be launching a .dr5 process in November but I'd like to begin at home.
    Thanks

    P.S. I remember seeing a thread on this somewhere but I can't find it at all.
    T
     
  2. BenZucker

    BenZucker Member

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  3. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    I believe Calumet in Chicago has them in stock and will ship.

    Google for the Kodak TMAX Direct Positive Kit and a few places will ship although B&H has the best price.

    You will get the best results with a film that has the clearest base. I'm assuming that kit gets rid of all the magenta stain in the Tmax base.

    I have some Legacy Pro 400 that has a very clear base and also some of the Foma (T200) films do also.

    I've been wanting to give this shot too so good luck.
     
  4. railwayman3

    railwayman3 Member

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    Foma make a special film (Fomapan R100), presumably with a clear base, and also a relevent kit to produce B&W slides.

    I've not tried the Foma yet, though I have used various kits and mix-it-yourself formulae successfully over the years, and also the old Agfa Dia-Direct and Scala films. I think my last efforts were using the Ilford published formulae.

    B&W Reversal seems rather neglected nowdays, but it's a well-established technique for still and movie, and a half-hour with Google should give you lots more information. :smile:
     
  5. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Try looking in the articles section.

    I've been making B&W transparencies on & off for over 35 years, it's very easy, I've also been doing research into the process for commercial use.

    Ian
     
  6. Ektagraphic

    Ektagraphic Member

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    Kodak still offers a T-Max reversal kit.
     
  7. frdrx

    frdrx Member

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    I use Fompan R100 and their developing kit routinely. I like the results quite a lot.
     
  8. dwdmguy

    dwdmguy Member

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    Thank you all. I'll give this a shot next week and report back.
    Very best.....
     
  9. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

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    I have done it from home brew chems a few years ago. The results on my first attempt were not stunning - The subject was white egg shells set onto a black background, lit by a single hard light. The blacks were plenty black, but the whites were not too white, so there still needs to be some tweaking done, with exposure and first developer activity/time.

    Of course, also having two young kids asking of my time. I have not had the opportunity to refine my initial attempts.
     
  10. Aurum

    Aurum Member

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    There are plenty of homebrew or semi-homebrew methods
    Ilford have a method for instance http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20061291034093.pdf

    Or if want a pro-lab to do it, have a look at DR5.com

    If you search on that site, or wait for a while I'm sure David Wood may add some comments of his own regarding his experiences in reversal processing
     
  11. alxsav

    alxsav Member

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  12. tjaded

    tjaded Subscriber

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    Anyone have any idea what would happen if you ran B&W through traditional E-6 process but at 68ºF?
     
  13. railwayman3

    railwayman3 Member

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    Withe a conventional B&W film, you'd end up with a clear strip of film.
    Normal E-6 processing removes all silver from the film leaving the dye image, but there are no dye couplers in a standard B&W film.

    (There's another thread about chromogenic (C-41) B&W in E6.)
     
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  15. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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    You may help this link: http://www.photosensitive.ca/wp/methods-for-producing-bw-slides.
    I have been testing the process reversible b&w on various types of films. Negative, positive and positive after the white / black. Many tests done on expired film for 10 to 20 years.
    270 reversible black / white negative film photography made Azo (expired some eight years) in the process reversible b&w. http://www.dump.ro/imagini/270-reversibil-neg-azo-jpg/11107
    336 Dup Positivfilm DP 3 is a picture make with Dup Positivfilm DP 3 (Orwo - expired about 20 years) worked in the process reversible b&w.
    http://www.dump.ro/imagini/336-dup-positivfilm-dp-3-jpg/11105
    335 dup scris is a picture make with Dup Positivfilm DP 3 (Orwo fresh) processing in negative process b&w. http://www.dump.ro/imagini/335-dup-scris-jpg/10191
    I am attracted to high-quality images. I did test positive film b&w. The reversible process we have not reached notable results with positive b&w. I like the pictures you've made with positive b&w (print). Negative b&w process. 319b N positive. http://www.dump.ro/imagini/319b-n-pozitiv-jpg/11104

    George
    [​IMG]
     
  16. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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  17. dynachrome

    dynachrome Member

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    When I used the Kodak Direct Positive kit with Panatomic-X years ago I used a regular ss tank/reel set.
     
  18. dr5chrome

    dr5chrome Member

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    only '1' dr5

    ..there is only "1" dr5 processing and it is in Denver CO.
    No such other dr5 entity exists. dr5 is proprietary and is protected by trade secret.






     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2009
  19. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    There are a number of labs around the world offering alternative services to dr5 but at a low level of through put, or alongside volumes of motion picture processing. In general they aren't interested in handling the odd few films from individuals and can't handle all formats anyway.

    dr5 is currently the only lab who offer a realistic, dedicated B&W reversal service across formats, and with good knowledge of a wide range of films. I'm currently working with a London based lab who may begin offering a limited service next year, but they aren't interested in providing the kind of all round service David offers there's just not enough demand. They have 2 or 3 clients interested who need a fast 24hr max turnaround for commercial reasons.

    It's highly unlikely anyone else will be prepared to invest the money required for research & equipment to compete with dr5, there's more users of Kodachrome than B&W reversal and that only needs one lab for worlwide processing.

    Ian
     
  20. dr5chrome

    dr5chrome Member

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    ..for Ian & those other tech heads interested

    ..the attached is a snapshot of the dr5 processor [bad as it my be].
    It is one of a kind made to my spec's. It is computer driven and able to be completely controlled by the front panel once the film is loaded. ..it's basically a manual automatic. The average roll [example = scala, FP4] is 2.75 hrs dry to dry. The processor is 18 tanks long. It has 4 lifts and 2 transports.
    Though I don't process film as it comes in anymore [since last year], I can run 80-100 rolls a day if I had to. My colleagues call me crazy but the image quality is well worth the sacrifice. ..most of my clients would also agree.

    dw
     

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  21. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Thanks David, I'd seen similar photos before but it shows why it's unrealistic for any one to think about competing at a similar level. It just wouldn't be viable.

    Ian
     
  22. dwdmguy

    dwdmguy Member

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    This weekend I'll pick up the Kodak Reversal TMax kit and give her a try.

    As I've mentioned prior there will be a cali lab doing this, NOT a .dr5 as that is indeed a priop. process, but a B/W reversal process. The TMax kit seems to be a bit expensive at $42 per Qt. but it if gives me the results I'm looking for it may be worth it.
    Thx
     
  23. Sankt.Ahlomow

    Sankt.Ahlomow Member

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  24. alxsav

    alxsav Member

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    I 've done it some 8 times using the Foma Pan R kit. The films were both Foma pan 100R and Agfa Scala 200x. The results were excellent. The process is quite time consuming and a bit complicated but nothing that the average photographer can't do. The Ilford proposed process is quite similar. http://www.flickr.com/photos/charalampidis/3920689821/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2009
  25. dr5chrome

    dr5chrome Member

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    ..the kodak kit is discontinued.



     
  26. cp16

    cp16 Member

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    my two cents

    Hi, ive used a few of the kits and was happy with the results but some of them are a bit complicated and i find the cost of a kit a little silly considering the small yeild.

    Ive dabbled and come up with my own method which is cheap and seems to give good and consistant results.

    I use fairly cheap ingredients as follows -

    Developer - Fotospeed PD5 "print" developer (mixed 1-9 parts)
    bleach - 20% sulphuric acid solution with 2.5 grams potassium permanganate added for each litre
    clearing bath - Potassium Metabisulphite (30 grams in a litre of water)
    fixer - Fotospeed FX20 (mixed 1-9 parts)


    No doubt somebody will criticise the harsh nature of a paper developer but ive had my most accurate results using paper developers and decided to stick to it long ago. For those of you in other parts of the world the developer and fixer I buy is very similar to the run of the mill, budget chemicals that Ilford sell. <only much cheaper :smile: >

    All very bog standard ingredients and very cheap to buy seperately. it really gets the cost down in a big way buying ingredients seperately rather than using a kit. i find that the clearing agent is cheapest to buy from supermarkets sold as a sterilizing agent for home brew beer. but still really cheap from photo suppliers. it costs me well under £2 all up to mix enough ingredients for a large session.

    -I do a first develope for 8 minutes
    -Bleach for 10 minutes
    the rest is done in daylight
    -I then clear for 1 or 2 minutes
    -then I hold it up to a lightbulb for around a minute with the last rinse water still in the tank (turning slowly)
    -develope for another 2 minutes
    -and finaly fix for around a minute and a half but i tend to monitor the fixing by eye and dunk it in clean water at just the right moment. The fixer acts quite quickly and its easy to overcook it when youre not keeping an eye on the film.

    All with the obvious rinsing in between stages.

    Also everything you read about this sort of thing will say throw away your bleach after the session. I usualy put some scraps of film in it that still have emulsion on them (heads, tails, unwanted etc) to exhaust the permanganate and then leave it sit for a few days in the bottle. over a few days all the spent permanganate settles on the bottom and you can decant the good acid out into another bottle and re-use - ive been doing this for years and only have to top it up a tiny bit with acid, water and fresh permanganate before I go again.