Has anyone used silver bromide paper to coat Platinum / palladium

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by michael9793, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. michael9793

    michael9793 Member

    Messages:
    2,012
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Location:
    Fort Myers,
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    I had some matt paper that i know I wasn't going ever use so I fixed it and used it on some Carbon printing. I thought I would try using it in palladium printing. my first final print came out with unbelievable tones and a slight brown green tint. I will psot it this weekend. thinking I could get a better even coating by increasing it to 4 coats but found that it was no better. My question to all of you is, has anyone ever done this and is there s special technique that I should know.
    thanks michael andersen.
     
  2. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,765
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2003
    Location:
    Jacksonville
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Michael, You might try contacting Craig Koshyk I can't find my email exchange with him but he was very helpful in my efforts. I didn't pursue it further, though the technique looks very promising. For example you would tape the paper down on piece of glass that is resting on a heating pad. The heat apparently enables the absorption of the sensitizer. Otherwise, it'll just wash off in the dev/clearing process.
     
  3. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

    Messages:
    2,936
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Location:
    Misissauaga
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have stripped emulsion off of working prints otherwise destined for the bin to give me a bayarta coated dw paper to then gelatine coat and cyanotype coat. I don't see why PT would not work if the same approach. I used a strong ammonia solution, and would regularly filter it to minimize the crud building up in the working wash.
     
  4. PVia

    PVia Member

    Messages:
    813
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Location:
    Pasadena, CA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Mike, are you saying that you would need to coat with gelatin first before the platinum, or are you talking about two different uses above?
     
  5. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

    Messages:
    2,936
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Location:
    Misissauaga
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Cyanotype of the sort I run is a dye overcoat of a gelatine layer. The gelatine keeps the iron out of the pepr, so that the unexposed coating can be washed out more readily.

    I am not up on PT to know if it is a coat over gealtine , or a PT in gelatine applied as a single coat.
     
  6. cowanw

    cowanw Member

    Messages:
    1,289
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Location:
    Hamilton, On
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I think you can strip the silver emulsion off with hot water and then coat the paper as usual.
     
  7. michael9793

    michael9793 Member

    Messages:
    2,012
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Location:
    Fort Myers,
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    I'm just fixing the paper and using it as is. This gives a golden look to the print. I don't want to do anything to the paper. I was just seeing if someone had a good coating technique. This is a side line I'm working right now with Japanese tissues in the 19 to 30 weight range. Got some good 11x14 prints now I'm heading to 16 x 20. Of course the large the print the harder to coat and process. It's like wet paper towels to handle.
     
  8. Ben Altman

    Ben Altman Member

    Messages:
    21
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY a
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Hi Michael, I'm just starting to work with thin papers, so I'm wondering what you have figured out. Do you prestretch the paper the way watercolorists do? I'm having problems with it wrinkling during coating, which has the sensitizer sitting in little puddles, and then it does not go back flat which makes for wrinkles under the neg. in the vacuum frame. I've been hanging the paper under slight tension to coat, which seems to help, but any ideas would be welcome. I'm also trying glued-on edging pieces and corner reinforcements to help with handling in the processing stage, which are then cut off once the print is dry.

    Re coating on fixed s/g paper, I read that gelatine and Pt don't play well, but Pd is ok. I've tried Photoformulary's baryta paper and it did not work at all well. That's all I know on that...
    Best, Ben
     
  9. PVia

    PVia Member

    Messages:
    813
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Location:
    Pasadena, CA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Regarding handling of lightweight papers and tissues...

    I use a backing sheet of Yupo, a plastic paper, for tray development of any tissue-type papers. You can attach the tissue to the Yupo with small plastic paper clips.
     
  10. michael9793

    michael9793 Member

    Messages:
    2,012
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Location:
    Fort Myers,
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Ben,
    there was a article I believe in Large Format Photo mag. But what I do because the papers I'm using are almost tissue like I start by taping the paper down with painters blue tape to a sheet of glass, it comes off the easiest. Coat the paper with about 1/3 more liquid than I would normally use. I start by using a glass push rod, pour the liquid very quickly along the rod and push it as far as I have liquid. Then the bare areas I pour some and use a brush to spread the liquid to fill in the areas that are bare. Now that it is thin and there is glass underneath it it will pool and allow you to spread the excess. At this point the tissue is saturated with liquid and very fragile. I peel it up and lay it on a piece of Plexiglas. I will use a hair blower and on low use the blower with warn air to the corners lifting them with slight tension to keep the paper as flat as possible. I read that larger pieces can be hung and using a hair drier dry the tissue. this keeps the tissue from wrinkling. Next I expose using a contact frame but anything works. After exposure, I place the Plexiglas in the tray I lay the print on top of it and hold the print near the edge and gently pour the developer on to the print. DO NOT LET IT OVER LAP ITSELF. this will be very hard to separate and I like to touch as little as possible the tissue itself. To transfer the print to the clearing bath, I hold the tissue very lightly and lift the Plexiglas out of the developer and lower it very slowly into the clearing bath. I repeat this in the next clearing bath. then I place the Plexiglas and print into a tray of water and having a trickle of water going into the try I let the print sit for about 15 mins. after that I raise the print out of the water on the Plexiglas and hold the print and let it drain for about 10 secs, at that point you can let it drain on it's own without holding it for about a min. then lay the print and Plexiglas on a screen or counter to dry. When dry the print will usually have to be peeled off the Plexiglas.
    give it try it does take time to get it right and not every time it works perfect. I'm up to 11x14 prints working my way to 16x20 prints on 20x24 tissue. Not allow to say they are dig negs. 11x14 and up.
    regards

    Michael Andersen
     
  11. Ben Altman

    Ben Altman Member

    Messages:
    21
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY a
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Hi Michael,

    Thanks for the very thorough description. I'll try your techniques. After my last post I did find that View Camera article, which is also very helpful. Given the large size issues, which are of interest to me too, maybe we can discuss on Hybrid in future...

    Adapting an idea from a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gmVZYwvBmg (it's near the end) I've tried just dumping the sensitizer onto a piece of plexiglas and then picking it up with the brush and brushing it into the paper - seems to work well and avoids puddles.

    PVia - thanks for the Yupo idea, had not thought of using that stuff.

    Best, Ben