Have I been shilled/scammed: Jobo CPE 2 on ebay

Discussion in 'Darkroom Equipment' started by hoojammyflip, Jan 21, 2010.

  1. hoojammyflip

    hoojammyflip Subscriber

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    Hi, I would really appreciate opinions on pricing of a Jobo CPE 2, which I have just won in an auction on ebay. The price shot to my top bid in the last 10 seconds, at GBP 180. The kit is used but includes a Minilux LED colour light and a couple of thermometers. I saw on the Tim Parkin video that he had paid 150 for his. The seller has a rating of 2, and the other bid came from a bidder who has no history at all. It seems I was shill bidded by a snipe bid. Is this feasible? As a general rule, I believe if you don't know who the loser is, you're the loser...do people think I have overpaid for this. Item number is 200426706130 on ebay.co.uk. Many thanks, I am due to pick this up this weekend.:confused:
     
  2. hoojammyflip

    hoojammyflip Subscriber

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    I should add, the seller is near me, so I reasoned, I don't have to pay postage and could increase my bid on the Jobo accordingly, plus, I have a stack of films awaiting development, and am keen to get a move on with the developing. I don't mind overpaying if the fair value on this stuff is 150...I do mind someone mucking around with the price discovery process by setting up a shill bid.
     
  3. Keith Cocker

    Keith Cocker Member

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  4. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    It really depends on its condition. If it is almost as good as new then £180 plus 2 good thermometers and a light might just about be worth it. I have seen CPE2's sell for less but this would demand patience on your part to wait for the right item and then you have the problems of p&p.

    Overall you haven't got a bargain but you haven't been done either. Can't comment on the bid tactics but if it was a set-up then this breaks down if the fake bidder wins and leaves the seller with the problem of arranging the next time genuine sale without attracting attention. A fresh sale of a similar item within days of the first sale would look suspicious, especially from a seller who appears to be new to e-bay.

    pentaxuser
     
  5. Snapper

    Snapper Member

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    I would say that it's not a great bargain - I paid half that for my CPE2 just 6 months ago. It didn't have a print drum, but it did have a bigger film drum plus 3 reels. Depends if you really need all those thermometers and LED light.
     
  6. hoojammyflip

    hoojammyflip Subscriber

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    Thanks for the answers. I'll try to see if the thing is as described and pay in cash when I go to collect. A near identical system is GBP195 from the link Keith provided, so I have not got a bargain, but equally havent paid over the odds. It just smells funny, when a bidder with zero feedback and no other bids on ebay in the last 30 days snipes an auction.
     
  7. hoojammyflip

    hoojammyflip Subscriber

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    Snapper, did you check the bid history on the auction...I actually called ebay about it, but they said they could not determine any connection between seller and bidder 4, therefore its inconclusive as to whether its been shilled. But then it would look like that when using a web based sniping service. The print drums are worth quite a bit, GBP 40 at a guess, and the delivery is usually around the GBP 15 mark, which brings the price up to GBP 145 (0.5*180+40+15).
     
  8. c.d.ewen

    c.d.ewen Subscriber

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    You might ask eBay if there have been any bid retractions on the auction. I don't know if it still works or not, but a way of exposing the max bid was to put in a very high bid, then retract your bid. Afterwards, it would look like nothing happened. That's what started me using snipe services almost exclusively.

    I checked Bidder 4 - no retractions

    Charley
     
  9. hoojammyflip

    hoojammyflip Subscriber

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    Yes, but bidder 4 has no ebay history at all...this is the first auction he has bid on. The only reason for him to retract would be if I retracted my bid.
     
  10. fotch

    fotch Member

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    Its called the Free Market.

    Bidders set the price. If you bid more than you were willing to pay, its your fault. A snipe bid only wins if its higher and doesn't allow you to bid any higher. I would think someone using a shill bid would place it with enough time to allow others to raise their bids. The seller has no way of knowing what your maximum bid is.

    It cost way more when it was new, however, since its out of production and used, its whatever someone is willing to pay in a given place at a given time.

    If it works, you will be glad to own one.
     
  11. fotch

    fotch Member

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    Everyone on ebay had to start at the beginning and make a first bid.
     
  12. Snapper

    Snapper Member

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    It is a bargain when you compare what you paid to what Jobo gear costs new! It ain't cheap. My CPE had been used quite a bit, if yours is in better condition, then it's worth the extra money. It's hard to compare stuff viewed on Ebay. There seems to be a steady stream of Jobo gear on Ebay as people give up on C-41/E6. I'm in the market for a small film drum myself at the moment.

    Yes, never bid more than what you are prepared to pay, and never bid days before the auction ends. It's a sorry fact that it seems most auctions are won by bids made in the last few minutes.
     
  13. hoojammyflip

    hoojammyflip Subscriber

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    Thanks for the responses, but all is ok. Just spoke to the seller...all appears straight forward. Guess that really is the price of these CPE units in good condition! At least this is cheaper than software, and I can always sell it again.
     
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  15. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    I rarely bid until the last 20 seconds, why drive up the price, I don't use software but I can make multiple (sequential) bids quite quickly always though with a maimum in mind.

    In this case the other buyer may have wanted the same item, they are rarely forsale anywhere else so he/she may have decided to give Ebay a chance, It's just luck.

    Ian
     
  16. hoojammyflip

    hoojammyflip Subscriber

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    Yep, this was my first significant purchase using Gixen, instead of Auctionstealer. It lets you bid as late as 3 seconds before the auction end, and has a back up server to reduce the risk of missing the close.

    The seller seems like a decent chap and I feel a little embarassed I suspected shill bidding. Ebay really is a great price discovery mechanism for old photography kit, just some people muck it up by trying to inflate their auctions.

    There was another auction I was watching the other day, where I thought shill bidding was rather blatant...a Vivitar 28mm prime managed to reach GBP 55. Auction ID 120517011278. Just a plain vanilla lens. There was a bidder with no rating in the middle of the auction bidding in increments divisible by exactly a pound, engaging in a bidding war against a resting bid placed at the start of the auction. Pentax K mount...the M series equivalent can be had for around GBP 30.
     
  17. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    I've seen ebay auctions end with much more dramatic prices changes than that in the last 15 seconds. At least here, ebay has recently made it extremely easy, since the page now auto updates during the last 5 minutes or so. All that is needed is a fast internet connection, and a second window open with your bid confirmation button.

    The only sane way to buy on ebay is don't ever bid more than you are willing to pay. Whether you make that bid in the first minute of an auction or the last 5 seconds is just a matter of the tactics you are comfortable with.

    FWIW, the unit you bought looks to be in very god condition, so the price isn't necessarily unreasonable, even though it may not be a bargain. Condition matters a lot, since parts are scarce at best and very expensive.
     
  18. hoojammyflip

    hoojammyflip Subscriber

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    Yep, thanks for the reassurance. Now I have to lightproof the room under the stairs and make a trip to Nova for chemicals.
     
  19. rmolson

    rmolson Member

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    I bid on stuff on eBay all the time But I set my maximum bid, and that is all I would be willing to pay. If I get lucky., fine otherwise wait for another day l One of the dangers of all auctions is getting caught up in the action and actually paying more than a new piece of equipment would costs.I have seen it a real estate auctions
     
  20. kompressor

    kompressor Member

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    What is your problem? I dont wanna call you someting bad, but you did bid 180 quid, didnt you? So again, whats your problem? If you dont know what you are doing, stay the h*** out of a auction. And for your information, i will gladly pay 300 GBP for a good working CPE-2!
     
  21. edtbjon

    edtbjon Member

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    There is lots of information availabe on the internet on what those items are worth, so finding out how much you should pay isn't that much of a problem really. I found myself in a similar situation when I bought a CPA2 with a lift a couple of years ago. I knew how much I wanted to pay for a CPA2/CPP2 with a lift, but I were overbid in several auctions before I suddenly found myself as an auction winner with some money to spare as well.
    In short, don't ever bid more than you are like to pay. If the item sells at 50p above your top bid, there's always another auction which you can win.

    Anyhow, good that you are happy with the deal.

    //Björn
     
  22. jeroldharter

    jeroldharter Member

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    I agree with fotch. If you were willing to pay 180, then it was a fair price. If you paid 80 for it you might feel great about it but the seller would not. Seems like a reasonable deal so long as the unit works. If so, you will easily save the 180 in time and effort in a short time. Most ebay auctions for commonly sought after things heats up at the very end.

    On the other hand, I know how you feel. I recently sniped a very expensive item with a relatively lowball bid, but I surprisingly won and had to spend a lot of money for something I absolutely don't need. Now I have to sell it! Maybe I will make some money for film and matboard.
     
  23. hoojammyflip

    hoojammyflip Subscriber

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    Well, I have collected the CPE 2, and it doesn't work! Unfortunately, because the guy had a low rating, I paid cash, as I did not like the idea of parting with 180 in advance only to see a deleted account and disappearing seller.

    I saw the motor working at his house and thought all was fine. I got it home, put some water in it, and at the lowest temperature setting on the thermostat, the water is maintained at 47 degrees C, (as measured using the two thermometers it came with :D). Even worse is the motor is now screeching slowly and is clearly missing some lube and about to seize.

    It does look absolutely new, the reel inside the 1520 drum is brand new, as if its never been used. I can only assume the motor has gone bad in the guy's attic. I don't think the guy came across as being dodgy when I met him.

    I've contacted the guy on the phone to say its not working, but I think he is taking the stance that it was "sold as seen", particularly given I signed his receipt which said as such (although it also says the thing is working which it clearly doesn't). Do I have any recourse against this?

    Cheers.
     
  24. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Did the Guy have a low rating, or a low number of sales the two things are entirely different.

    You saw the motor working, so I doubt he was a con merchant, could there be a problem , well yes but are you using it properly ?

    From the outset of this thread you've been 110% negative since winning the item which is rather odd, almost as if you are the one trying to pull a fast one. There needs to be some realism.

    Ian
     
  25. hoojammyflip

    hoojammyflip Subscriber

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    He had low sales (2).

    I have filled it with water, switched the motor to setting 2, the temperature down to 20 C...and it screeches and hits 47 C. When the drum is mounted, sometimes it rotates back and forth, as it should, but then the speed changes, from being swift when the motor is not screeching, to slowing right down when the motor is screeching. I am concerned the motor will burn out, so have switched the thing off and put it back in the box.

    Please take it easy.
     
  26. canuhead

    canuhead Member

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    Chalk it up as a hard lesson and seeing how the motor ran when you picked it up...

    Perhaps have someone who is familiar with Jobos take a look, might be something simple although lube might explain the screeching (or someone took the top off and didn't replace it properly, dunno). As for the temperature, maybe the sensor or heater is caked in calcium and throwing things off ?

    Either way, good luck.