HC-110 dilution and time

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by TareqPhoto, Jun 2, 2012.

  1. TareqPhoto

    TareqPhoto Member

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    Hi again,

    Well, i don't know why this developer stopping me to use it, the more i read about it here and there, te more i feel difficult how to start or use it.

    I know it is discussed millions of times, but i will be happy if i can understand it one time than those millions, which dilution i should start with to develop 2 films, HP5+ @800 and TX400 @1600? what the time i should use of the given or recommended dilution? I want to avoid "Stand" development for now, so what i should do?
     
  2. John Shriver

    John Shriver Member

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    Use dilution B. Mix directly from syrup, don't make the stock solution, as it doesn't last. (The syrup has no water in it, so it is resistant to oxidation.) You'll need a small syringe to measure the syrup, such as one for measuring liquid medicines that you can buy at a drug store. Measuring the syrup accurately is important due to the high dilutions used.

    For the US syrup, dilution B is one part syrup, 31 parts water. There is a European syrup that requires different dilution for dilution B.]

    Great information source: http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/
     
  3. TareqPhoto

    TareqPhoto Member

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    Cool, so you recommend me to go with Dilution B, and dilute 1+31, not 1+49 or 1+62 as some prefer?

    Once i will go with this is you recommend, i can find which time to develop, i am worry i may get more posts here telling me to go another methods or dilutions as well :laugh:
     
  4. DWThomas

    DWThomas Subscriber

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    With some films, use of dilution B may result in developing times so short (like under 4 minutes) it is difficult to time accurately in tank processing, although if you are pushing that's less likely to be a problem. And if, as I do, you go one-shot, the greater dilutions use less developer (I'm also cheap! :D)
     
  5. TareqPhoto

    TareqPhoto Member

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    Well, in fact i am worry because i will use this developer for first time for push process, first time using this dev and first time i shoot for push process, if i shoot just normal at box speed then i will never worry much which dilution i will use, I can use Ilford developers or TMAX dev also, but i don't think those are good enough more than HC-110, Ilfosol 3 is good for slower speeds, and TMAX is amazing for normal speed for box, one day i may try it for push/pull, but now i chose HC-110 to be the dev of the test, and for that push process, the time is good enough above 5min, if not then i will increase the dilution or maybe use same less dilution and may try stand developing, HP5+ seems fine for that time, but not sure TX400 may go good.
     
  6. Richard S. (rich815)

    Richard S. (rich815) Subscriber

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    Dissolve 32ml of HC-110 syrup in 1000ml of water, develop the HP5+ at 7min at 20C. Or use 16ml of syrup and develop for 14min. Agitate twice at each minute mark. Do the exact same for the Tmax. HP5 at 800 and Tmax at 1600 in this case is about the same development time.
     
  7. TareqPhoto

    TareqPhoto Member

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    1000ml? I am developing for 120 on 500ml tank, so how can i measure again for that 500ml?
    Not Tmax, but TriX400 at 1600
     
  8. Richard S. (rich815)

    Richard S. (rich815) Subscriber

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    For 500ml if water cut syrup amount in half as for 1000ml. For TriX shoot at 1600 go 16min for the 32ml/1000ml dilution.
     
  9. TareqPhoto

    TareqPhoto Member

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    Ok, so use 16ml here for 500ml tank.

    This is the time for Trix from massive dev chart, i was gonna use this time anyway, thanks for help :smile:

    Not sure which film i should start to develop today, i can't do both as it is a bit late and i don't want to stay long to develop both, one is fine for now, but not sure which one, tough decision :laugh: :D
     
  10. TareqPhoto

    TareqPhoto Member

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    I bought a syringe that is 20ml, i had one given to me free but only 10ml, but should i use that syringe with the needle or without? No reaction of the metal with the developer? It is very difficult to find needles in my area, i have to buy new syringe to get needles, but that 20ml was very hard to find, i was lucky as i found it in one pharmacy, they had only 2 last pieces.
     
  11. DWThomas

    DWThomas Subscriber

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    I would skip using the needle. It is probably stainless steel and won't affect anything, but it is an unnecessary sharp object. I use a syringe designed for measuring liquid medicines for kids, it has no needle, just a short tube molded into the plastic.
     
  12. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Go to the following site for lots of useful information on this developer. www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110

    I use it diluted 1+49, the site will give you times for 1+47 which is close enough. Enjoy
     
  13. TareqPhoto

    TareqPhoto Member

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    I can't find that one here, also i can remove the needle and just use the syringe tube, but i don't know if i can use it without the needle and if it will be accurate enough and not adding few drops or ml on the recommended amount.
     
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  15. TareqPhoto

    TareqPhoto Member

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    And now you asking me to go with dilution E, most recommending Dilution B or H, and now E, that what i was worry about, i can use all dilutions, but i have to choose one to start with, later i can test all dilutions if necessary.
     
  16. DWThomas

    DWThomas Subscriber

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    Hmmm -- you raise an interesting point, but my thought is the volume of the inside of a typical hypodermic needle would be a minuscule fraction of a multi-milliliter measurement and could thus be neglected (I'm not sure it's considered in calibration for medical use, as that last bit in the needle can't be forced out. Beyond that, I would say being consistent in your procedure from roll to roll will be more important than multi-digit accuracy. That is, if you are off a little by the same amount each time, you will develop a process that compensates and hides the inaccuracies.
     
  17. TareqPhoto

    TareqPhoto Member

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    I don't know what to say, i hope i didn't do a mistake to choose HC-110 then, didn't have problem with Ilfosol 3 and TMAX dev before, even D-76 was easy to use regardless i don't like it much, but seems this HC-110 with small dilution measurement it may go with few issues after long run.
     
  18. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    You misunderstand I am not telling you which dilution to use I am telling you only which dilution I use. I find 1+49 the best for my negatives in term of quality and economy. Use the covington website and select a dilution to try first. All the dilutions mentioned produce good results. You're asking people to make a decision that only you can make based on the subjects and lighting conditions under which you photograph. Remember photography is a learning experience.

    If you have read the article and still feel uncomfortable with HC-110 then I would suggest going back to a developer with which you are faniliar.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2012
  19. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Tareq:

    All the dilutions work well, if slightly differently.

    There is more information around for dilution B than some of the others (e.g. for unusual films) but it isn't particularly difficult to figure out how to extrapolate that information for other dilutions.

    If your circumstances lead you to working at higher temperatures, the combination of dilution B and some films require times that are awkwardly short, so higher dilutions are preferable.

    And some tanks require a lot of liquid, so dilution B can result in using a lot of developer for each roll (thus making it less economical).

    Unless the short times are a problem, I would suggest starting with dilution B. Once you get comfortable with that, we can give you hints about switching to another dilution if you want to.

    For what it is worth, I personally am currently using 1 + 49 (essentially dilution E) in a replenishment regime, but have been happy using 1 + 63 (dilution H) in the past.
     
  20. TareqPhoto

    TareqPhoto Member

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    Well, i was going to start using dilution B, but you are right, the bottle is small so if i use that for a large tank such as 500ml-1L that will not be economical, i feel i want to go with higher dilutions like 49 or 63, but i was thinking to use less dilution now for those 2 films as i will have long time more than 5min anyway, later if i will use the film at same box speed then i can go with higher dilutions no problem, in fact i am only worry about developing for push/pull, it will be my first time, so i want to be accurate or closer to do things right, and with push process and high dilution it will take even longer, i can manage to do at 20C degree even it is hot here.
     
  21. TareqPhoto

    TareqPhoto Member

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    Finally i developed one film with this developer, i can't tell my impression yet, but i was so paranoid, even with i was mixing had few problems that i don't think it will affect anything but i hope i should more careful to have precautions, the liquid is thick, i didn't know it will be, some drops lost out of the bottle as i was trying to use the needle with the syringe, but it didn't work, so i took it out after pouring water to make it gently taking off.

    I am not sure if the fixer was still fine working as it was about 13-16 months i think with no use in bottle, and some impurities maybe from that rubber on top of the bottle to block air, in all cases, i did't want to do many tests to see if the fixer and stop both are all still working fine, so i just gave them a use and done developed the roll.

    I started with Tri-X400 exposed @1600, waiting the roll to be dried then will see how it come out from scan or print if i can do, the first look at it i can see i have mixed exposure, some are overexposed and some under, maybe 1-2 frames are good exposure, honestly, i don't worry much about that, sometimes i like some frames to be look different than just so accurate proper exposure, will see later.

    I did go with Dilution B [1+31], what is the chances that the bottle can last longer after i opened it and it exposed to air for few seconds before i close it tight?

    What else i should consider and look at by now for next time? Still i have one more film waiting[HP5+], maybe tomorrow i will give it a try.
     
  22. Terry Christian

    Terry Christian Subscriber

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    Another thing you can use besides a hypodermic syringe is a medicine spoon for babies (see below). It looks like a test tube and is marked in milliliters, but the end is flared like a spoon. I find it really handy for measuring small amounts of HC-110 or Rodinal.

    If the times for Dilution B (1+31) are too short -- under five minutes -- generally you can use "Dilution H," which is exactly half-strength Dilution B (1+62). Just double the Dilution B development time.

    630_image.jpg
     
  23. TareqPhoto

    TareqPhoto Member

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    Thank you very much for that measuring tool, but i think i will go with the syringe, in fact the syringe was effective without needle, so i will keep that way.

    About the developing time, because the time was 16 min. for dilution B developing this film at that speed, so it wasn't a problem, next film will be HP5+, it supposed to be developed at 7.5min. is that fine or should go with longer time developing with another dilution?
     
  24. Terry Christian

    Terry Christian Subscriber

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    Use the dilution and time that Ilford or the Massive Dev Chart give you. The only exception might be Dilution H if you really wanted to develop for 15 mins., but the 7.5 mins. of Dilution B sounds just fine.
     
  25. TareqPhoto

    TareqPhoto Member

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    Ok, i think i will give that a try.

    Thanks!
     
  26. newtorf

    newtorf Member

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    My formula for 480/500ml development tank:

    7.5ml syrup -> 480ml: Dilution H, 2x development time of Dilution B, good for one 36exp roll
    10ml syrup -> 480ml: Dilution E, 1.5x development time of Dilution B, good for two 36exp rolls (I know it's a bit short of suggested amount of syrup, but it works!)
    12.5ml syrup -> 500ml: Dilution D, 1.25x development time of Dilution B, good for two 36exp rolls
    15ml -> 480ml, Dilution B, good for two 36exp rolls

    To measure the syrup, you can buy a Mortrain/Tylenol for kids in grocery store. It comes with a small measure cup with marks of 5ml, 7.5ml, 10ml, 12.5ml, 15ml. Perfect for the purpose.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2012