HC-110 Dilution E: Confused about how much developer to use

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by philipus, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. philipus

    philipus Member

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    I would like to use Dilution E with my Tri-X exposed at 400. Dilution E is explained at the Covington site as follows:

    [table="width: 500"]

    Dilution SYRUP
    1rl steel tank 240ml
    1rl plastic tank 300ml
    2rls steel tank 480ml
    2rls plastic tank 600ml

    E (1:47)
    5 mL
    6.3mL
    10mL
    12.5mL
    [/table]

    I have a steel Kindermann 5-roll tank which holds (with spirals submerged, which is how I assume I should measure) 1030ml. Approximately how much HC-110 should I use when developing five rolls in this tank using Dilution E?

    Edit (to prevent people thinking I'm totally mathematically inept): I would have thought it would be a total of 21ml for five rolls but the reason for my question is I read somewhere that one needs 6ml per roll which the above doesn't work out to be.

    Many thanks for your help
    Philip
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2013
  2. Jim Noel

    Jim Noel Member

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    To make it simple to measure, I would add 25ml to 1 L of water. Althopugh this may not be exact. it will be easy to maintain consistency.
     
  3. wiedzmin

    wiedzmin Subscriber

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    There are different opinions regarding minimum volume per film. I found that below 5ml per 1x35mm x36 exp or 1x120 is NOT recommended.

    If you would like to develop 5 x 35mm films at the same time and use 5ml per film:
    5x5ml =25ml of hc-110
    Now you need to add water to get 1:47 dilution
    25ml*47= 1175ml
    25:1175 =1:47
    25+1175=1200ml this is your tank required capacity

    If yours is 1030ml you can develop 4 films at the same time or take a chance and see if lower minimum than 5ml per film will be enough
     
  4. philipus

    philipus Member

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    Thank you very much for the quick replies.

    How do I know if 5ml is not enough, I mean how do I see that on the negs?

    I have been considering stand or semi-stand with HC-110 but haven't found good descriptions on how to do that, as in how much to agitate at the beginning and halfway (if any). I guess that could be an alternative when using higher dilutions?

    Sorry for the rookie questions. I appreciate your help
    Philip
     
  5. hjl

    hjl Member

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  6. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Rookie questions are welcome!

    I never use less than 6 ml concentrate per 135-36/120 roll. In most cases, 5 ml concentrate per roll probably will work fine, but if you happen to have a bunch of rolls that will end up being quite dense (think high-key portraits in the snow) you may end up exhausting the developer before development is complete.

    By the way, the 6 ml per roll calculation is based on Kodak's capacity recommendations (and a little math).

    Also, the 6 ml per roll is based on 135-36 rolls, so if your rolls are shorter, the calculations change.

    As for stand and semi-stand developing:

    1) I don't use it;
    2) One of the reasons to use it is to benefit from compensating effects, which most often result when developer does exhaust locally - so the capacity issues are probably made more complex; and
    3) I don't recommend doing it, unless and until you are experienced with regular developing.

    I wish you good luck, and hope this helps.
     
  7. philipus

    philipus Member

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    HJ, thanks for linking to filmdev.org. What an excellent site.

    Matt, thanks for your detailed help and your views on stand development. I agree, I wish to learn how to get consistent results with a simple formula before moving on.

    So 6ml per roll would correspond to Dilution D 1:39 on the Covington site, then. And that would mean about 25,75ml for my tank. But here I hit a little snag - the MDC only has Tri-X at ISO250 for Dil D at 9min at 22C. I've shot my rolls at 400. True, there's not a huge difference between 250 and 400 and I could probably tweak it after having scanned the negs. But if I want to get it "right", approximately what time should I use?

    Thanks again for your help
    Philip
     
  8. newtorf

    newtorf Member

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    I routinely used 7.5ml HC-110 syrup (US version) to develop TWO rolls of 135x36 films (Dil H in a 16oz SS tank), no problem at all. I read somewhere that 3ml is the minimal amount actually needed for one roll - yes I am well aware of the 6ml as the minimal requirement for one roll in most websites. I initially started from 15ml for two rolls (Dil B in a 16oz SS tank), then down to 12.5ml for two rolls (Dil D), 10ml (Dil E), and eventually 7.5ml (Dil H). My Tylenol measure cup has marks of 5ml, 7.5ml, 10ml, 12.5ml and 15ml. Perfect for my purpose.

    So back to your question, I think anything beyond 18.75ml should be fine (3.75ml per roll based on my formula). I have a 32oz SS tank (4 rolls 35mm). I normally use 15oz syrup and Dil H.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2013
  9. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    First develop a roll in a single roll tank as recommended. I would keep the concentration and the minimum amount of concentrate constant. Develop 4 rolls in your large tank with 20 ml of concentrate and water to make 1 l. I have used a dilution of 1+49 with a minimum of 5 ml in a single roll tank without difficulty. Use an empty reel to make up the difference.
     
  10. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Add 6ml x 5 of concentrate to a jug and fill it up to 1030ml. Process your film.
    Those numbered dilutions (A, B, E, etc) were to try and provide some 'time uniformity' with some processing systems. You are correct in thinking that you cannot use dilution "E" because you tank is too small.
     
  11. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    What he said - and you can use the dilution B times, because effectively that is the dilution you will be using :laugh:
     
  12. philipus

    philipus Member

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    Thanks very much Matt. I'll give it a go today. If I get any publishable results I'll post back. Fingers xed.
     
  13. Ed Bray

    Ed Bray Member

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    I recently carried out some testing with HC110 and my jobo cpp2 with 4x5 fomapan 400 and using my XRite 811 densitometer. I took a series of exposures at various isos from 400 down and rotary processed them in my cpp2 using HC110 with a concentration of 1+30 for me that was 600 mls distilled water plus 20 mls of HC110, after fixing and drying I tested them on my densitometer and the negative that gave the correct density gave me a exposure ISO of 250, I then carried out some further development trials with film exposed at ISO250 and discovered that the best processing time for the highlights was 5 mins and 45 seconds on the rotary processor. This will now be my n development time for that film in HC110. I haven't got around to doing the n- or n+ timings yet but i believe you can approximate these with +/- 10% of the n time.