HC110 vs Rodinal: Help?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by NikoSperi, Feb 18, 2005.

  1. NikoSperi

    NikoSperi Member

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    These are two identical shots, using the same camera, on the same film, with the same exposure. The only difference is one is developed in HC110B and the other in Rodinal 1:50

    I am a newbie at anything other than HC110, so it's a bit frustrating to have to start all over with getting used to a new dev. I wanted something with a bit more "bite" so I tried Rodinal. I think it's obvious which was which.

    Question is: Is this what I should be expecting? It looks to me not any sharper, just with more prominent grain. Any advice much appreciated!

    Kodak Tri-X (400TX)
    HC110B: 7' @ 20°C 1 inversion per minute
    Rodinal 1:50 13' @ 20°C 1 inversion per minute
    Negative scan, no processing.
     

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  2. mark

    mark Member

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    At the risk of bringing the wrath of the rodinal church I will say yep rodinal is pretty ugly.
     
  3. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

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    Nicola, Rodinal can be very good under the right circumstances. Not so good on another. YOu got exactly what should be expected. Both negs are sharp and Rodinal is grainier. If you want beautiful gran, Rodinal cant be beat, if you are contact printing and want very nice middle tones, Rodinal once again is excellent.
    The best advice I can give you is not to expect a magic bullet with any developer. I would even say there is no such thing as a "best" developer, the developer is only as good as you are with it. From what I have seen you are doing very well with HC110, why mess with success?
     
  4. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    I'm not a user of HC-110 but P.Gainer has a perverted version that I took the liberty to transfer to the chemical recipe area.
    Maybe that'll give you the "snap" you look for
    http://www.apug.org/forums/article.php?a=37
     
  5. david b

    david b Member

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    I am sure this will come up a few times, but rodinal works best with slow films.

    Now there are lots of folks who rate Tri-X at 200 and soup it in Rodinal. I am not a fan of it.

    But I love APX 100 and Pan F+ in Rodinal 1+50. Beautiful stuff.
     
  6. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Jorge & David are right, as a user of Rodinal for about 15 years I wouldn't dream of using it with Tri-X, HP5 etc I'd expect grain.

    As a developer its particulary suited to the newer breed of emulsions like Tmax, Delta and APX.

    Prior to using Rodinal I used Ilfotec HC, Ilfords equivalent of HC110, the only real differance I found was I could rate my film about a stop faster in Rodinal and still get superb tonality.

    You could try Rodinal and Tmax 400 its a combination I've used for medium format & 35mm and give a nice tonality with fine grain. Or as Jorge suggests you might be best sticking to what you know HC110.
     
  7. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    Not obvious to me. I'd have to see the original negative. One frame appears to have foliage a trifle out of focus..?

    Which is which?
     
  8. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

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    I've used Rodinal for Tri-X and other 400 speed films with good success. Grain is not fine, nor can it be expected to be fine, but the tonality of the image is mostly why you would soup such a film in Rodinal. On the other hand, I think Rodinal does its best work on slow films.

    HC-110 is a rather nice dev., just different from Rodinal. Try different films with each of these devs. and see what you like.
     
  9. NikoSperi

    NikoSperi Member

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    Wow, thank you all for the turn out! I guess I was a little disappointed that I didn't immediately achieve stunning results on my first try with a new developer :rolleyes:

    Jorge: Why mess with success? Well, skirting the definition of success... why because of the greener grass of course!

    Titrisol: Thx fr the formulary, but mixing my own stuff is a line I'm not ready to cross... yet. Preparing KRST scares me, glacial acetic acid scares me... I scare easily.

    David & Ian: I should have added the Tri-X is 120, where the reduced enlargement factor doesn't make it a really grainy film for me. I do usually use it at 250, just not here.

    Ed: Really? I guess it's deceiving as we're all looking on different screens, but I thought it seems obvious which frame is which dev, given Rodinal's reputation for prominent grain... the left frame is the Rodinal. The full frame shot is also the Rodinal, just to place the enlargement factor into context. As for the leaf, tripod-mounted identical setup, so I'd rule out different focus in camera.

    Jim: Grain is fine, and was expected (I did do a little reading up on the stuff :wink: ). I was really looking for greater accutance, of which maybe I am sort of seeing a bit.

    Conclusions: None really, other than to try some more. I guess it swings to two extremes - start with a slow fine-grained film as the Rodinal's increased grain will be less noticeable - or go overboard and use a fast film like Delta 3200 and shoot for the popcorn.

    I'll try some 4x5" today in the two soups. I can pick from Tri-X 320, Delta 100, HP5, Acros. I'm undecided... Still life, strobe lighting, maybe a portrait if I can get my 2 year old to sit still enough.
     
  10. duel

    duel Member

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    In our country we don't have tri-x pan so I never try to develope that kaind of film. I herad about tri-x everything the best. I saw many exhibition with photography from that film. Any way, autors have the same way, Tri-x pan in D76, very fine grain, normal contrast, and best results.
    You can try, and tell
    best regards
     
  11. janké

    janké Member

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    Rodinal, HC110 etc

    A good site to understand b&w developers is the site Erwin Puts.
    He is also a great defender of film based photography.

    You can find his site on http://www.imx.nl/
    And see the section: choose film and developer wisely.

    JanKé
     
  12. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    I'm afraid I got lost. The above indicates one frame developed in HC110, and the other in Rodinal. These were both were developed in Rodinal?

    See the "Critique" gallery. My Nude #47 was taken on AgfaPan APX 400 and developed in Rodinal 1:50.
     
  13. NikoSperi

    NikoSperi Member

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    The frame here is a composite of two negatives of the same teapot - there is just one teapot in reality. The pot on the left is from the negative souped in Rodinal, the one on the right from the neg done in HC110.
     

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  14. noblebeast

    noblebeast Member

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    Since you said you are looking for greater acutance, try HC110 at a higher dilution (1:63) and try a semi-stand development. Basically you start with a time double that of dilution B and you only agitate every two minutes for fifteen seconds. I use this with Tri-X and really like the results. The only part that I still find needs improvement in my negatives is shadow detail so I'm thinking of letting the film stand in the developer a little while longer after I'm done with the agitations - so for example if my normal time with the agitation is ten minutes I will leave the film in the developer for an extra five or ten minutes without agitation to see if the shadows develop a bit more contrast. Many people get good results with Rodinal and stand development - there is a thread about it, do a search for 'stand development' and you will find it. In summary, if acutance and better edge effects is what you're looking for, many people say stand or semi-stand development is the way to achieve it.

    Joe
     
  15. Donald Qualls

    Donald Qualls Member

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    I"ll go further than that -- try your HC-110 at Dilution G, 1:119 from USA Syrup (or 1:29 from stock solution, or close enough to go 1:3 from Dilution B if you're using European concentrate). Agitate continuously the first minute, then every 3 minutes, for 3 times the dilution B time.

    Now, if you want grain, this is *not* the way to go -- my TMY comes out with grain so fine I can't find it in a 1:1 crop of a 2400 ppi scan. But, I get sharpness that, in the plane of critical focus, still looks single-pixel sharp in that same 1:1 crop, and excellent tonality (once I nailed the development time).

    It is important, when using dilution weaker than Dilution F (1:79) that you use extra working solution with 35 mm, to ensure you have at least 3 ml of USA syrup, or 12 ml stock solution per roll of film -- but that's easily done, with 35 mm, by developing a single roll in a two-reel tank, with empty reel as a spacer.

    I hope to get some Rodinal and try it at some point, especially with ISO 100 film where grain won't be a problem -- but for the images I like to make on Tri-X and TMY, HC-110 G has been all the developer I want or need.