Heliar 165

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Whiteymorange, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. Whiteymorange

    Whiteymorange Member

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    I have a question or two about this lens and about the advisability of selling it on a simple monorail like the 45E. I am not trying to sell the camera myself; I do not own it. From time to time, however, my friend Dick Welch gets things that walk into his office on which he asks my advice. Here, I have little to give him and so I turn to the experienced minds of APUG.

    The Voigtländer Braunschweig Heliar 1:4.5 16,5 cm lens is mounted in a working Compur shutter (original, by the look of it). This is mounted on the Omega View lens board through the simple expediency of the flange being screwed on like a retaining ring - no problem to remove. The owner has, reportedly, not shot with the thing in over 10 years. My questions: First, what does anyone know of this lens? I sometimes feel I ought to genuflect when speaking the name Heliar, but the truth is that there are lots of lenses with that name engraved on the front ring, and they seem to be unevenly worthy of the cult status they have attained. I can't find much on this focal length. It's in the 1927 Voigtländer Lens Catalogue, it is no longer listed in 1964. I don't have any ebay or auction records on it, nor can I find threads extolling its virtues on line.

    Second, assuming this is one of the good ones, would it not be a better deal for the man if we substituted a decent modern lens and shutter on the Omega view to make it an attractive, inexpensive package for someone just starting out in 4x5 and sold the Heliar separately?
     
  2. gandolfi

    gandolfi Member

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    Pictures are always helpful... (and also from the back)
    The serial number can pin point the date rather precisely....

    For your last question: Yes I think so... and the Heliar alone would probably sell easily...

    Wild guess: As seen on Voigtländer Bergheils, the normal lenses for 6.5x9 is 10.5 - and sometimes 13.5; on the 9x12 it is most often 15cm...

    What about the more rare Bergheil 10x15? To me it would be possible this lens could be for that camera.. (?)
    (If so, there's a special back on it.. hens the question about the back..)

    EDIT: found this:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Excellent...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

    certainly not for Bergheil...

    second edit:

    http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Alpin

    scroll down to the 10x15 version...
     
  3. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    The Vade Mecum doesn't have anything special to say about the 16.5cm length, except to list it among the other focal lengths used in f/4.5 for the various Bergheils. I think Compur shutters were used on the Bergheils, so it could be original if it's a prewar Compur (the one on eBay certainly isn't!). Maybe it was sold as an auxiliary lens for the Bergheil, one of whose virtues was interchangeable lenses.

    In any case, if it's from that series as the Vade Mecum indicates, it should be "one of the good ones" for sure. The 13.5 on my Bergheil is scary-sharp. I have no clue what the market will bear for the lenses in isolation, but if it is in fact in Bergheil bayonet, I'm going to have to see what you decide to ask for it and how my tax refund looks!

    -NT
     
  4. Whiteymorange

    Whiteymorange Member

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    The lens and shutter on that 10x15 does appear to be the same as this lens. I do not have the camera or the lens with me, just some hastily written notes I made when asked to look up what I could find, so no pictures as of right now, nor can I come up with serial numbers. If he decides that my friend should sell it for him, I would take pictures and document likely date of manufacture. There is nothing notable about the back though, Gandolfi, the lens is on a basic Toyo-made monorail 4x5, not it's original camera. The flange is black enameled brass.

    The camera needs a bit of a tune-up and my friend has asked me if I want to take it home and get it all in good working order, so I may go get it today and shoot some film with this thing. Perhaps I'll even want to make an offer myself for the package and then sell off the camera to help make up the money spent on the lens. I feel a GAS attack coming on, and I'm trying to cut back, but...
     
  5. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    BJPA adverts show the 16.5cm Heliar being sold separately in 1927 in different mounts and also in a Compur/Compound, and by 1929 on the 10x15 Tourist. I wouldn't sell it with a modern camera, you'll most likely get less, I'd find a Xenar or similar to go with the camera and remove the Heliar & flange. I'll have a few adverts etc maybe other information if you want any scans. I'll look later what info I have prior to 1727/

    I quite like 165mm I've two Tessar's an f6.3 & a rare f5.3 in that focal lenght and I use them on two half plate cameras, they are excellent on 5x4 and so would your Heliar, plenty of room for movements.

    Remember there's a serial no on the Compur which along with the lens sn should give you a reasonable idea what year it was made.

    Ian
     
  6. Whiteymorange

    Whiteymorange Member

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    Thanks, Ian. I think I have enough to let them know what they have. Being honest with them will make the price of the lens much higher, maybe high enough so I won't be tempted to buy it myself! Self control through honesty- what a concept!
     
  7. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    I advised a friend how to sell his late fathers Zeiss Ikon 2 weeks ago, it was in great condition I'd have liked it (and used it) but there was no way I'd have given him anything close to what it fetched on Ebay.

    Ian