Help!!! Black Magic prints turned black

Discussion in 'Silver Gelatin Based Emulsion Making & Coating' started by giadne, May 29, 2010.

  1. giadne

    giadne Member

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    I have very long time this problem. I coated in Dark room my sheets of normal paper with Black Magic VC, but then i tried to make prints on it every print turned just a pieces of black paintings. The exposure time i tried from 99 seconds to 1! With different aperture. Than i though that this emulsion is very high contrast and it doesn't work with this negative and I ordered the other Black MAgic RBM2 (grade3). Today tried to print on coated sheets. The results are the same - everything is black. Than i tested a piece of paper with emulsion on it without lighting to put it to the developer. The result was the same again EVEN WITHOUT LIGHTING IN ENLARGER that piece was black. The developer is normal kodak for paper. The emulsion i ordered in different shops but the results are the same.
    What is the problem? What did i do wrong?
     
  2. hrst

    hrst Member

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    Try to coat and develop one paper in complete darkness without any safelight. This way you can rule out safelight fog.

    Which kind of safelight do you use and are you sure there is no light leaks when you coat and process?
     
  3. Kirk Keyes

    Kirk Keyes Member

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    How old it the emulsion? Perhaps it was exposed to light already?
     
  4. giadne

    giadne Member

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    the most amassing thing that before buying Black Magic emulsion i tried to make prints with liquid light (friend gave me to try) and those print worked out very well. All that i've done in the same dark room with the same light conditions. Just because i live in Netherlands i can't get Liquid Light so that's why i bought Black magic/ But i don't understand why i can't get the image with this emulsion! All conditions are the same.
    The second thing is that Black Magic bottles i ordered from different shops so i can't believe that both of them were exposed by post or both of them are expired?
    May be the water is too hot for warming? i was waiting about 10 minutes till boiled water will get cooler to warm up emulsion. May be it was still hot?
    What about developer? Can it influence?
     
  5. giadne

    giadne Member

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    The light conditions are just red light like in normal dark room. What els it can be?
     
  6. hrst

    hrst Member

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  7. giadne

    giadne Member

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    but what do you think about warming up the emulsion? Could i kill it with too hot water? I normally put the glass with emulsion into a bath with water as i said it was a boiled water that has been staying after 10 minutes to get colder
     
  8. alexhill

    alexhill Member

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    I've never used that product, but i know that tempature can cause fogging.. dont know about the total black.

    from this
     
  9. giadne

    giadne Member

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    what kind of emulsion can be more safe to use?
     
  10. alexhill

    alexhill Member

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    All of them can be frustrating if you don't follow the directions. If you have been re-heating only a small amount from each bottle, and not the bottle itself, then try re-heating another small amount this time at 115f max. While its melting lets keep the safe light from falling on it (to prevent it from fogging). Also review this link and see if you are following the directions.
     
  11. giadne

    giadne Member

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    check this images one has been made with liquid light the other one with black magic. The same dark room the same light. Should be something wrong in my steps i can't believe that different suppliers deliver the same expired or exposed product
     

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  12. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    I can see only one image which I think is the one that has worked

    pentaxuser
     
  13. giadne

    giadne Member

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    Thanks i have this description from Rollei also. I will try to redone it with less hot but developer? What do you think do i really need to by special developer LP-BROM 4 from the same supplier like Black magic? Can it influence so much?
     
  14. giadne

    giadne Member

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    this one is from black jhjhjh.jpg magic
     
  15. Marco B

    Marco B Member

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    Hi Giadne,

    First: I see two problems here: your coating technique can probably use a bit of improvement. I have used brushes too, but gotten better results. See the example below of Black Magic VC. I think you need to apply at least two or three coatings, to get a relatively even one. Besides that, keep in mind like someone else already posted, that BM needs a RED(!) safelight (and yes, it is necessary, I have tested another color too, and it was sensitive to a standard Ilford Orange / Brown safelight), so get a red one if you don't have one.

    I don't think your image is really "black", I still see an image displayed, albeit faint (an eye, and the lower left jaw is still just visible), I think you need to work out the exposure better. Anyway, I don't think the water temperature should be the major issue, but if in doubt, measure it. It should be around 50-60 for melting the emulsion. I don't know what happens to emulsion if you have boiling water, but you said you waited for 10 minutes, so I think it might be OK.

    [​IMG]

    Marco
     
  16. giadne

    giadne Member

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    1. I'm sorry but the light is really red. IT's professional dark room in the photography academy.
    2. I coated 3 layers - the reason of this image is not so coated well is only that it's not a paper but board. Than on the paper i've got only black without any white on it at all. So i can't show it because i throw that away.
    3. Yes my brushing is not so good as i did it first time in y life.
    Can we contact may be as i can see you're from Netherlands too
     
  17. giadne

    giadne Member

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    And what kind of work on exposing time can be els if i've done tests from 99 to 1 second?
     
  18. Marco B

    Marco B Member

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    Yes, you can contact me, see the Contact details on my website:

    http://www.boeringa.demon.nl

    You may phone as well, probably the easiest to discuss something...
     
  19. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    All emulsions go bad with time. They end up totally black through fog. This can take from a few months to a few years. Any emulsion kept at or above 40 deg C will go bad in hours. Emulsions should be kept at about 3 - 7 deg C for optimum keeping, with short periods at 20 deg C for removal of samples. The samples for coating should be melted at 40 deg C and coated immediately.

    PE
     
  20. paul_c5x4

    paul_c5x4 Subscriber

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    I've taken to using a plastic knife to chew out chunks of emulsion from the main bottle - These are then placed in a small jar for melting over hot water.
    I'm hoping that this will enable me to store the main bulk of the emulsion in the fridge for quite some time without degradation.