Help identify these subjects?

Discussion in 'Photographers' started by TheFlyingCamera, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    Can anyone help me identify what tribe these two gentlemen are from, and even better, can you verify that the one on the left with the clear face is in women's clothing? Is this a copy of a published image or is this a (relatively) unique original? All I know is that they are of the desert southwest, perhaps Arizona or New Mexico, or even northern Mexico/west Texas.
     

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  2. BradS

    BradS Subscriber

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    I cannot identify the tribe but the one on the viewer's left is almost certainly a female.
     
  3. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    Here's one reason why I suspect they are both male - take a look at the hands. If that's a woman on the left, she's got some SERIOUS man-hands.

    Upon doing the fine detail scan for the hands, I can tell this is a reproduction, and a fairly recent one at that - you can detect the offset printing dots.
     

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  4. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    From what I remember from viewing photos in the museums I visited in New Mexico, they look to be Apache, quite possibly Jicarilla tribe (northern NM), I dont think them to be Navajo.
    The one on the left is sitting in an effeminate position, subserviante to her partner. The hands dont mean anything, as the women did all the work in camp, including chopping wood for fires and cooking, and washing clothes at the river, etc.
     
  5. kossi008

    kossi008 Member

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    Well, I think they're both women. I have noticed the hands, and would explain them away with hard work...
     
  6. SuzanneR

    SuzanneR Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Interesting picture, Scott. And based on their body language, it looks like a man (on the right) and a woman on the left. Just look where their feet are. And both their hands have done a lot of work... strong hands, for sure.
     
  7. bsdunek

    bsdunek Subscriber

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    It looks like an Edward S. Curtis photo, although others did similar work. See:

    http://googlemini.worldwisdom.com/s...tend&proxystylesheet=ww_new_frontend&site=WW2

    As said above, women did hard work then. They didn't sit around and do their nails and watch TV. Growing up in farm country, I remember that many of the older women had similar hands. They could chop wood, pitch hay, and many other things that were necessary to be a true partner on the farm. Hands like that have their own beauty.
     
  8. Bertil

    Bertil Subscriber

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    I think Suzanne is completly right and has a nice point: "Just look where their feet are."
    /Bertil
     
  9. If you're inclined to some further detective work, you can contact the following departments at the National Museum of the American Indian (part of the Smithsonian):

    Archives | NMAIarchives@si.edu

    Research | NIN@si.edu

    Maybe a quicker response can be had from the Braun Research Library, part of the Southwest Museum of the American Indian within the Autry Center (Los Angeles):

    rroom@theautry.org

    Good luck.
     
  10. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    I know little about these, but have sent an inquiry to a couple of people that might be able to help. The suggestion to contact the National Museum of the American Indian is good.

    - Thomas
     
  11. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    I have emailed the photo department at the NMAI with a scan of the image. Hopefully they will be able to get back to me with some information. In doing the detail scan I realized that it was a reproduction of the original print, so I feel a bit cheated. However, while the seller may have overpriced this one ($40), I more than made up for it with the other two images I bought, genuine CDVs from the 1860s and 1870s, one of them of a famous burlesque/vaudeville performer, Lydia Thompson.
     
  12. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Scott,

    Any luck on this? My efforts contacting a museum has so far remained fruitless.

    - Thomas
     
  13. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    I got a response from the NMAI image curators:

    It really only took maybe a week or less to get a response from them.