"HIE INFRARED discontinued -Cold Storage options?"

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Schafphoto, Nov 19, 2007.

  1. Schafphoto

    Schafphoto Member

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    Kodak HIE, black & white Infrared film pre-discontinued.
    I knew this day would come, I screamed like a sailor when I found the link to:

    Preannounced Professional Film Discontinuances
    November 2, 2007 - KODAK is preannouncing the discontinuance of several smaller running families of Professional film... High Speed Infrared (HIE) effective end of December 2007. Demand for these products has been declining significantly in recent years, and it is no longer practical to continue to manufacture given the low volume, the age of the product formulations and the complexity of the processes involved. We will continue to ship product through the end of this year.


    After I heard, I went out the next morning and drove to 5 stores in the LA area and bought every roll they had. Then I talked to the film buyer at Samy's Corporate, and told him to order a lot for his stores NOW. So hopefully they will have a stock on hand for those that need their HIE fix like I do.

    The prices were as follows:
    $11.99
    $12.82
    $13.09
    $11.99
    and $11.49 at Samy.com mail order.

    BTW, all 290 rolls were November 2008 expiration.

    My friend at Samy's said that Kodak now has only two film sales reps for the entire USA, EAST & WEST. With that kind of commitment it seems that Kodak does in fact see film buyers like me as a distraction. As much as I would like to take out my anger & frustration on BIG YELLOW... the film has been produced, it sits in a warehouse, it has a cost price probably around $8.00 and neither Kodak the corporation or the executives, or the stock holders will feel any effect if I buy 290 rolls to finish my current project, or if they just trickle out of the stores over the next 6 months. So, no reason to boycott Kodak or anything like that, Kodak still produces fine stuff, albeit less of it than in film's heyday. I guess I instead could have bought 35.5 KODAK EasyShare C613 Digi's instead if I wanted to make their stock price really soar.

    Now that my favorite film of all time, Kodak HIE, has been discontinued, how do I store my stockpile most efficiently?

    I have heard:
    As cold a freezer as possible.
    The film canisters are freezer/humidity proof, but the brick/boxes are not.
    So put the brick in a zip-lock freezer bag to keep packaging from getting soggy.
    I'm thinking a little desiccant pack in each bag as well.
    The freezer should not defrost if possible, to keep temp from fluctuating.
    The bricks are individually bagged so i can remove one and thaw without disturbing the others.
    How's that sound?

    While I've heard a lot about base fog due to cosmic rays, I have also seen many posts by shooters who have had luck with VERY expired batches of HIE, and I have seen no issues with film two to three years out of date. It usually doesn't sit around here that long. I imagine I can finish my project in the next ten years, so that's what I'm shooting for. Hopefully some other film company will step in where kodak has left a big hole in this niche market.

    -Schaf
    www.schafphoto.com
     
  2. BWKate

    BWKate Member

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    Schaf,

    Just looked at your web site. Your infrared images are great! Are you shooting a medium format camera with the 35mm Hie? It looks like you do because the entire film is exposed as well as the sprockets. Very interesting. I, too have used this film for a very long time and am scrambling to get some but also need some cash flow as well. When I found out that the film was on it's way out a week ago I went around to find as much as I could in my town and found 2 ROLLS. Man, I so live in the wilds of Canada!
    I received a postcard shot with the Rollei IR film for the postcard exchange and it looked quite good. Maybe Kraker could post it in this thread so you can see it? If you want I could ask him. It might be a viable alternative but it sounds like you have a fairly good supply right to last a little while.
    I like the way you shoot your infrared so that you see the image first and the special effect last.
     
  3. PeterB

    PeterB Subscriber

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    10-15 years should be fine if kept frozen. Bear in mind that there is greater than a 3-fold difference in terrestrial gamma radiation levels around the US. see this map taken from here.

    If you are really paranoid, purchase a digital thermometer for the freezer that has an alarm go off if the temp exceeds a certain value.

    Also one theory I have, is that if you don't open the freezer too much you won't let fresh (radioactive) Radon gas in. Hence don't get a frost free freezer as those things continually replace the air. If you do have a frost free freezer then consider placing the zip-lock plastic bags inside lead pouches (the kind used for x-ray protection in the olden days )

    BTW Did you actually purchase 290 rolls ?? That's about US$3000 !!

    regards
    Peter
     
  4. Fotohuis

    Fotohuis Member

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    Pretty drastic purchase of some crappy film.....

    All high sensitive (IR) film is rather sensitive for cosmic radiation so more or less this means the film will be fogged in some years. There is only one good solution and that is FRESH IR film.

    Actual manufacturers:

    Ilford SFX 200 (35mm and 120 roll film)
    Efke IR820 (35mm, 120 roll film, sheet film)
    Rollei IR 820/400 (35mm, 120 rol film, 4x5" sheet film)

    and I am sure there will be some replacement till 850nm-900nm high sensitive IR film soon.... :D
    But not from Kodak.
     
  5. Stephen Frizza

    Stephen Frizza Member

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    fotohuis No film is crappy!!! maybe a certain film doesn't suit your needs but
    no film is crappy. HIE had remarkable applications. Ive been stockpiling it too.
    Ive now gotten close to 300 rolls. normally I sell discontinued films but right now Im being like a squirrel with nuts before winter. These babies there are all mine. hehehehe.

    I will be surprised if any manufacturer replicates the spectral values, grain properties , tonal range/contrast of HIE.

    I genuinely believe that anyone who has this film and makes good use of it will be making images which have high value in the future as nothing will replicate its look.

    For me loosing HIE is like loosing an old friend.
     
  6. Fotohuis

    Fotohuis Member

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    In case you do not know: HIE is really a "waste" product ($$ :D ) . So in that context I call it "crappy". :tongue:

    Indeed none of mentioned products are giving the same effect as the HIE which has no A.H. layer and is sensitized till over 900nm, one of the reasons you have to load and unload in complete darkness.
     
  7. boyooso

    boyooso Member

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    What do you mean 'waste' product?

    Corey
     
  8. Fotohuis

    Fotohuis Member

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    For the manufacturer: Destination trash.

    But it seems to be that this product could (also) be used to produce a high sensitive IR film........
     
  9. Confusion Circle

    Confusion Circle Member

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    nnnnnnNNNNNOOOOOOOooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HIE discontinued???? Sad, sad, sad. My all time favourite film....gone...

    [​IMG]

    PS....isn't there an infrared film out there that has "Aura" in its name that also does not have an anti-halation layer?

    Has anyone tried the Rollei IR film? How does it comapre to HIE?

    I swear, if Kodak stops production of Tri-X, I'm going to cause some damage. :mad:
     
  10. Stephen Frizza

    Stephen Frizza Member

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    YAY I just received my order of HIE a few more hundred rolls for me :smile:
     
  11. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Good!!! Keep it from the hoarders!

    Steve
     
  12. Schafphoto

    Schafphoto Member

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    Stephen
    Where did you get your film, how much did it cost, and what are the expiry dates?

    -Schaf
     
  13. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    I did not buy and HIE. I kept 120 and 135 UC 400 from the hoarders. I am just cheering you on. :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

    Steve
     
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  15. Schafphoto

    Schafphoto Member

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    I have some good news for you meticulous IR-on-tripod-with-cuttoff-filter types of photographers, (not my bag).

    Efke 820c IR film has the surprising ability to halate with slight overexposure and a cut-off filter. My first tests with 29 and 25 filters and EFKE 820c were pretty disappointing, it's no HIE. But then I did some more testing with a 092 filter and WHAMO! In most instances I have had a hard time distinguishing the HIE shot from the EFKE shot when it's printed in the darkroom.

    That being said, Efke 820c is -SLOW!!!, like ASA 1 to 6. And it needs a IR cutoff filter for the full Wood effect to be seen. But it's also available in 4x5 and 120.

    I do not shoot on a tripod with a black filter, I shoot handheld, with a 23 filter (light red) to minimize the effect of IR to a subtile halation and grain. I could buy a f1.2 lens, and a rangefinder and only shoot outdoors and probably get 1/30 of a second in the sun... but when I did my EFKE tests for Freestyle in Los Angeles, it felt a little like shooting with the lenscap on. So I hope my stash of HIE will last until someone fills the void in the IR market with a fast 900nm IR film without a AH backing.

    If your curious about the halo/aura effect on EFKE 820c see my samples on my flicker site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/schafphoto/

    -Schaf
     
  16. dolande

    dolande Member

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    I've used HIE with a red 25 filter E.I. 1250 and developing in Diafine. Big grain but lots of usable images without lots of experimentation. I think I like the halo effect as much as the infrared, to a point I can see one without the other. Is there anything similar in the market?
    Thanks
    Rafael
     
  17. Stephen Frizza

    Stephen Frizza Member

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    I ordered it all from Kodak australia the people at Kodak here refuse to state that the film is being discontinued. Down here they are telling suppliers its production full steam ahead as usual. So I figured stuff it I'll but it all. so i bought all of Kodaks stocks. Cause I don't think they would know if their arse was on fire.

    I also did a phone around different film shops and bought up all their stocks.
    All of my stocks are dates 08/2008 Is it becoming hard to buy overseas?

    ~steve
     
  18. Stephen Frizza

    Stephen Frizza Member

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    And yes thanks for the subtle hints i get it im a hoarder, But i wanted it sooo badly!!! and now with a few hundred rolls at least I can do a good solid body of work with it. oh :-(
     
  19. Fotohuis

    Fotohuis Member

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  20. Stephen Frizza

    Stephen Frizza Member

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    oh and in response to the question of where i got it and price kodak sells it here for $10.61AU a roll.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2007
  21. PeterB

    PeterB Subscriber

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    Hey Stephen,
    perhaps I'm a bit ignorant but where abouts is Kodak's retail shop front in Sydney ?? Is it at their offices on Waterloo Road in North Ryde ?? I hope they are getting more rolls in after you just bought them out.
    I have been in contact with Kodak O/S and they confirmed for me that all the 35mm HIE has been manufactured and cut into rolls (I was hoping they could put together some 100ft bulk rolls on a special order !!).

    regards
    Peter
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2007
  22. Stephen Frizza

    Stephen Frizza Member

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    oh sorry i buy direct from the supplier. I own a lab here in Sydney so it was easy for me. let me know about the 100ft bulk rolls. have you tried to buy any more in sydney? i have been told kodak australia will be getting more HIE but then again they also ensure me that it is defiantly not discontinued......
     
  23. PeterB

    PeterB Subscriber

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    They can't do any bulk rolls because all the HIE has been cut up into 6ft lengths for the 35mm cassettes. They are not coating any more HIE, what's done is done. So if Kodak Australia gets more HIE in stock can I get a bulk quantity from your store for decent price ? (after all, were you trying to bait us or brag by saying how much you paid ?!) I'm sure there are other Aussies APUGers who wouldn't mind getting their hands on some rolls too.

    regards
    Peter
     
  24. Stephen Frizza

    Stephen Frizza Member

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    bait brag? sorry no, i just thought if im paying just under 11 a roll here thats how much it might cost overseas as a standard price. when i heard HIE was being discontinued sharp pains ripped through my chest hehehehe. Its my favorite film stock so i had to buy as much as i could at any personal cost. which is what i have done. Im my lab I do sell a variety of discontinued stocks however Hie will not be one of these items. I have used this film extensively in the past for my own work and I am intending to aquire as much as i can for a future body of work. if anyone knows of a stash of this material for sale in australia please let me know via private message ASAP. its a shame they cant do 100ft lenghts of the stuff.

    ~steve
     
  25. Stephen Frizza

    Stephen Frizza Member

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    peter do you know if much of this stock is floating around overseas?
     
  26. PeterB

    PeterB Subscriber

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    All I know is that B&H had 999 in stock about 2 weeks ago, and as of yesterday they had 170 rolls in stock. I'm assuming they will re-stock that unless Kodak has grossly underestimated the last-buy demand.

    Peter