Home made Part C of Kodak C-41 developer replenisher

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by mtjade2007, May 24, 2012.

  1. mtjade2007

    mtjade2007 Member

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    I have a few boxes of Kodak C-41 LORR developer replenisher that their partC has gone bad. Each of the box contains 4 sets of PartA, B, C bottles each set is to make 10 liters of LORR developer replenisher. This is a lot of developer that is unusable now. Due to job reasons in recent years I wasn't able to engage in photography and film development activities as a result. Prior to that I acquired too much of C-41 chemicals. All the bleach and fix chemicals are fine, They will last for a long time but not the partC of the developer because the concentrate is in plastic bottles. The juice inside looks totally black now. I know I bought too much...

    I believe part A and B are all just fine. I don't think there is anywhere I can purchase the PartC replacement. Is there any way I can make partC by mixing individual components of PartC? I know it will take a lot of experiment if individual components are available. I remember seeing an article on a magazine called Creative Camera and Darkroom Techniques that described how to take a package of Kodak C-41 developer, discard partB and partC. Use only partA with home mixed whatever to make up a C-41 developer by a pro photographer. If I remember correctly the author claimed to make a mix of CD4 and Hydroxylamine sulfate plus water to make up a replacement for the partB and C. It sounded too easy to believe. The reason the author did that was for the reason of developer longevity. The partA will last forever. If he could produce partB and C (from power) only when needed he would never worry about C-41 developer going bad after mixing part A, B and C.

    Now I have plenty of partA and B. If I can come up a way of mixing partC... I can avoid having to waste a lot of C-41 developer that has gone bad. Any suggestions anyone?
     
  2. hrst

    hrst Member

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    Now, the crucial question is; are you expecting a perfect match? If yes, then it will probably be a bit difficult.

    If minor shifts do not matter, just replace part C by 5 g/l of CD-4 and try it.

    I was once in a pinch, when I had to develop some C-41 and part C had gone bad. I didn't even have CD-4 so I just poured in some CD-3. I expected usable images, but guess what, I got just "perfect" images. At least without side-to-side comparisons. They printed just fine with my normal starting filtration and normal contrast and didn't show any crossover or odd colors. There was a problem of CD-3 not dissolving in the prepared mix of parts A & B. It formed some gunk I just filtered away. Nevertheless, it worked. I'm not sure if the CD-4 would dissolve as-is, or if it needs to be first dissolved in water or some other solvent.
     
  3. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    iirc, it is marked on the bottle in % (at least my non-lorr). I had a figure with error margin worked out somewhere before by weighing 10mL of part C and working out the density, and ratio of how much CD-4 is in there from the densities over a range including sodium bisulphite from min 1% to max 5%.

    Part C is a lot stronger than 5g/L.
     
  4. RPC

    RPC Member

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    Not too long ago I was in a similar situation. I work at a high-volume photo lab and when they went all digital and stopped processing film I was given a 25 gallon kit of C-41 developer-replenisher with starter, and 12 or 25 gallon kits of bleach and fixer, I forget which sizes. I mixed up about 10 liters of developer and by the time that was used up I discovered the part C had gone bad, not from age as I had stored it in a full, glass jar but from reacting with some metal or something in the lid. It had corroded. So, knowing that part C is the developing agent I realized I could simply use CD-4 in its place as I have the article you mentioned on how to make a working solution developer with Hydroxylamine Sulfate and CD-4 instead of parts B and C (by Bertram Miller). My parts A and B seemed to be okay so all I needed to use was CD-4 which I happened to have on hand because I have experimented with home brew C-41 developer. So, based on the mixing directions for replenisher and working solutions and home brew recipes, I came up with mixing quantities for my own working solution:

    Water 80-90 F 750ml
    Starter 14ml
    Part A 68 ml
    Part B 8 ml
    CD-4 5 grams
    Water to make 1 liter

    The results seem identical to the original developer.

    I don't know what the mixing directions for your developer are but you should be able to figure out the quantities for a liter of working solution. Just remember to use 5 grams of CD-4 per liter along with your calculated parts A and B and starter. Hope this helps.
     
  5. newcan1

    newcan1 Subscriber

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    Yes, the 5g/l (I use 5.3g/l) CD4 is per liter of working strength solution. It is best to dissolve the CD4 first in 20ml or so of warm water, and then add that to the near-working strength solution, rather than adding dry CD4 straight to the solution.
     
  6. mtjade2007

    mtjade2007 Member

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    Wow, suddenly I see light at the end of the tunnel. I actually have a 100 gram bottle of CD-4 that I purchased from Zone V in 1988. I also have a bottle full of Hydroxylamine Sulfate bought at the same time. Yes, it was the article written by Bertram Miller. I have an almost full collection of Creative Darkroom and Camera Techniques magazine, except maybe a few final issues. I was tempted to experiment back then but was not serious enough to achieve any result. I am not sure the old CD-4 is still good. Any idea the CD-4 can be kept for that long?

    I have a Jobo ATL-2300. I guess this will be a fun project that I couldn't finish in 1988 and get to continue today. This will be useful info for those who have C-41 developer part C gone bad too. Thanks a lot, hrst, athiril, RPC, newcan1. This forum is so resourceful. I sure will report back any progress I make in the future. Thanks again.
     
  7. hrst

    hrst Member

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    If your CD-4 is white or slightly gray/pinkish, it should be OK... If it is black, you can forget it.
     
  8. mtjade2007

    mtjade2007 Member

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    It's light grey or pinkish as you said. Definitely not dark or black. I guess I am all set to go for the experiment. Thanks, hrst. I will report back when I get some result.
     
  9. mtjade2007

    mtjade2007 Member

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    I have the mixing instruction in the LORR developer box similar to this. I also have a bottle of the LORR starter. I still have a one gallon developer kit that is in good shape. I will start with the gallon kit then experiment with the LORR replenisher. I can compare the result between the two. I will go out and shoot some films soon. Thanks a lot, RPC.
     
  10. newcan1

    newcan1 Subscriber

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    I also have some CD4 from Zone V, that I bought in 1987! It is a bit on the dark side, so I have it put aside for emergencies, but it still works. It may be about 10% or so less effective than the fresh stuff I am using. It's amazing how long dry chemistry keeps.
     
  11. mtjade2007

    mtjade2007 Member

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    Thanks, newcan1. I asked myself many times in the past 10 years if I should toss my Hydroxylamine Sulfate and CD-4. Glad that I did not actually let go the stuff. Never thought I would ever use it. Based on your message I probably need to increase the dosage of CD-4 to about 5.5 grams per liter of water. Hope to get to try it in the next few days.
     
  12. mtjade2007

    mtjade2007 Member

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    3 months after I posted the question I finally got a chance to do as suggested. I mixed the part A and B from a 10 liter C-41 replenisher kit to make a 10 liter replenisher without part C in it. I then prepared an 1 liter developer out of this developer by adding 30 ml of developer starter and 5 grams of CD-4. I ran a 120 roll of Ektar 100 with 330 ml of this developer. I produced one of the best negative I ever produced in my life. I can tell you not only this process works I confirmed for myself that Kodak Ektar is absolutely the best negative film to shoot with. The roll was shot more than a year ago and has been frozen ever since. The image is absolutely perfect and plenty of beautiful colors.

    I thought I should report back. So this is it. Thanks to everyone who gave the excellent technical tip.