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Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by cbphoto, Dec 11, 2009.

  1. cbphoto

    cbphoto Member

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    Going to be printing some RA-4 at home for the first time in a few years, and wanted to know what people are using. I used to use Tetenal Mono-PK in trays with either Fuji Crystal Archive or whatever Kodak paper was around back then. I seem to recall there being some occasional issue with yellow borders after a few days or weeks, but I don't think I ever figured out what that was.

    I will be using a Nova Trimate this time around, so I guess that opens up my options for chemistry a bit. It has temperature control. What do you recommend for ease of use, speed and quality (and lack of issues)? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

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  3. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

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  4. hrst

    hrst Member

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  5. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    Go for Kodak Developer Replenisher and Kodak Bleach Fix. They're reliable. Stock up on Supra Endura while you still can.
     
  6. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    Is there a RT (room temp) version of the kodak Bleach/Fix or does the working temperature for blix activity vary.

    I'll be printing at round 18-20c this winter and I'll get the RT version for the developer but can I use regular RA4 blix at room temp?

    edit: It seems "RT" stands for roller transport NOT room temperature....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2009
  7. cbphoto

    cbphoto Member

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  8. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    Though it does not stand for room temperature it can be used at room temperature. Use only the replenisher without starter. Both blix and developer work fine at room temperature as long as you use KODAK SUPRA ENDURA.
     
  9. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

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    Well I get excellent results with the Kodak products at room temp. I use the mixing proportions on the bottles to mix up 1 or 2 liters of working solution at a time, without using starter. I process in drums and will use 75ml of working solution chems for a couple or three 4x5 test prints and an 8x10. Purge the air out of the stock bottles and the concentrates will keep a year. :smile:
     
  10. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

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    What's the benefit of using a starter with a 38 degree replenishment process?

    The ag-photographic link says it 'seasons' the dev. What does that mean?
     
  11. hrst

    hrst Member

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    The idea in replenishment is that the optimal tank solution has a specific amount of active developing agent, specific pH and specific amount of halides. When you process paper, it releases halides from the paper and eats up some developing agent. "Replenisher" is a special developer solution that has little or no halides and more developing agent than tank solution. Then, as you add this replenisher into used tank solution, it stays at correct levels. But again, when you make a new tank, you can't use just replenisher but you need a tank solution. To make it easy, tank solution can be obtained by mixing replenisher and "starter". This information applies to all "replenished" processes.

    So, simply put, if you use just replenisher as a new tank solution without a starter, you get too active developer with too little restrainer. This, again, is general information that applies to every replenished process.

    PE has suggested that you don't need to use any starter with these RA-4 chemicals when you process at room temperature. You get great results that way. This is specific to this process and at room temp. I don't know if you need to use starter at higher temperatures. Maybe, maybe not. Probably you will get higher contrast or shorter processing time if you omit the starter.
     
  12. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

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    There is a colour shift between the Kodak chems used at 20 C and at normal temp. I'm not sure if this is due to the temp or to no starter solution, or a combination of both. I just use them as basicly one shot with drums at 20-22C and 2 min processing time, the process is very repeatable. I haven't tried the normal temp for processing yet, and I don't even see a need to try it.
     
  13. cbphoto

    cbphoto Member

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    These must be either discontinued or not available in the US.

    Can someone point me to the exact Kodak developer and bleach/fix I need, preferably through part number or Adorama links? I will be doing room temp tray development, as I need to keep the Nova for my b/w printing. Thanks.
     
  14. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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  15. cbphoto

    cbphoto Member

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  16. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

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    Yes, use 1/10 of each bottle to mix one liter of working solution, and PURGE the air from the factory packaging before you close it back up. It was packed with an inert gas at the factory.
     
  17. cbphoto

    cbphoto Member

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    Thanks. I noticed that the Protectan spray is no longer available. What do you recommend for purging the air? I was also considering picking up a couple of those Arkay floating lid tanks, but they're kinda pricey.
     
  18. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

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    Ronsonol butane is readily available, it is also flammable just like Protectan, which is/was a mix of butane and propane. A large cylinder of nitrogen, a can of canned air(R134A type), google will find the CAS number for the chemical that is R134A. Then you just look at the ingredients. There is a huge number of posts here on about purging air from bottles. The newer canned air with a stink added might work, it is somewhat flammable as well.
     
  19. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    Don't use air dusters. Terrible reactions with my chemicals for some reason, the concentrate absorbed most of the air. Rather weird. Stick with Nitrogen or Butane or other known inert gasses.

    Developer Bottles A and C have 500 mL and B has 222 mL. If you mix 50-22.2-50 starting with 800 mL of water and adding up to one liter than you should be good. Stir for a minute between the addition of each concentrate. I usually mix up a gallon at a time.
     
  20. cbphoto

    cbphoto Member

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    Thanks. So I'm looking for just regular ol' Ronsonol butane spray from the tobacco shop? I can just spray that in the bottle for a few seconds and cap it quickly? I've never done this before.
     
  21. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    Butane is heavier than air so if you hold the cap over it while you spray it in then it will fill up and won't escape.
     
  22. hrst

    hrst Member

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    I have made a comparison between different storage methods. I can maybe post specific report later, but I can tell you quickly that;

    The preferred method is to use PET soda bottles and squeeze all the air out of them.
    Refrigerating chemicals (even without any squeezing or butane) is surprisingly very good, as good as squeezing all the air out.
    Butane works but is not as efficient at all as the above mentioned ways (squeezing air, refrigerating)
    If you use butane, you have to use large amounts of it. "Butane is heavier than air and forms a layer between air and solution" is not true. You have to displace as much air as possible to get the desired result.
     
  23. cbphoto

    cbphoto Member

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    Thanks. I was planning on using soda bottles for mixed chems, but not the concentrates (due to the low volume). Is it safe to refrigerate the concentrates?
     
  24. hrst

    hrst Member

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    Yes, it's safe to refrigerate. Freezing may not be wise.

    If you cannot squeeze the bottles, add butane (if you have it) AND refrigerate. I would guesstimate they will live for more than a year this way.